I recently started tying up some small dry type flies to use for bluegill, The problem I am having is that it seems that the hackle will cause the leader to twist up. Am I putting too much hackle on the fly? Or am I putting the hackle on for too long an area? I mean, should I hackle a shorter space on the fly?
What size hooks? When tying small 18 and smaller you just need about two wraps of hackle toward the front of the shank. Also watch the size of the hackle about 1 to 1 1/2 in hook gape larger will make them spin. The old Catskill style spiders used very large hackle which caused them to twist. When they land on the water they unwrap the bounce around like a moth.
On bluegill, try one size up or a less limp tippet. Instead of a 7x Froghair, try a 6x fluorocarbon for example.
Been using 12 and 18 hooks.
And if I use Fluoro, wouldn’t that sink the fly? I am using 5X tippit now.
And thanks for the help!
flouro tippet is all I use personally…floats fine. But a #18 fly shouldn’t be twisting a 5x tippet? What are you using for winging?
Are you using saddle hackle?
A.K. Best said that modern saddle hackle was so dense and stiff, that it’s natural tilt created a propeller shape that would make a collar hackle dry fly spin. He suggests using neck hackle or winding saddle hackle front to back then back to front. The front winding would offset the effect of the back winding.
Personally, I’ve never had the problem, but I mostly tie with necks for my collar hackle flies. I only have one saddle, and it’s mostly used for parachutes.
Not using any winging, they don’t last long down here with the mudfish and vegetation. And I am using saddle hackle, and I notice that after I did tie one up using the front to back method you mentioned, that it seems to make the hackle seem to be more uniform and not in a spiral configuration. Thanks for the tip!
What kind of necks are you using? The necks in the local shop are mostly for saltwater and are too large to be used on small flys.
Personal choice but I use very few saddles as most saddles you have to buy two one for small flies and and one for larger. I use both Whiting and Collins necks. Whiting has a large selection of different hackle from different breeds.
I mostly use Whiting necks/capes that I’ve had for many years. I picked ones with hackle for small flies, as I live in Colorado and tie mostly small flies. I’ve noticed that the local shops don’t have nearly as much hackle selection in the last 5 years. When I recently replaced my grizzly cape, I was lucky to buy one from a friend who let me pick from a bunch of them. You may need to look online or buy at fishing trade shows. I think Feather Emporium has a lot of Whiting hackle.
Most tyers around here seem to use saddle hackle, so there must be other workarounds.
Here’s the explanation from [A.K. Best’s “Advanced Fly Tying”](https://books.google.com/books?id=K_sqg0rHCXcC&pg=PA44&dq=a.+k.+twisted+tippet&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T_mXVf-KEoLKoAS6pYKwBA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=a. k. twisted tippet&f=false):
and here’s the tying method that he calls [avoiding cone shaped hackles](https://books.google.com/books?id=K_sqg0rHCXcC&pg=PA53&dq=a.+k.+cone+shaped+hackle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=N_qXVcDdL86AygTZjZ-oCA&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=a. k. cone shaped hackle&f=false) - he actually wraps back first then turns and wraps forward.(https://books.google.com/books?id=K_sqg0rHCXcC&pg=PA44&dq=a.+k.+twisted+tippet&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T_mXVf-KEoLKoAS6pYKwBA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=a. k. twisted tippet&f=false)
Thanks for all the insights!
Bruce, thanks for posting that. I read that book years ago and never caught those remarks. If that is the case it would fit since I too do not use saddle hackle. All my hackles are bronze/silver necks, or the equivalent. I had tied for a couple years with saddles, but then sold them off because I preferred the full range of hackle sizes you get with a neck.
At one point (about 6-7yrs ago) I fought with a couple brands of 6-7x tippet, thinking that was the reason for some of my twist. As a result, that was also the time period I went to furled thread leaders and flourocarbon tippet. But thinking about it now, that was also the period I went back to all necks as well. I may have fixed the issue by accident, despite my leader/tippet change and never even knew it. LOL
Has anyone tried to use the technique of twisting the hackle after tying on but before winding on?
It might offset the “helical” characteristic you’re trying to avoid. This technique was detailed on this site quite a while ago as a suggestion from a European tier.
A couple of things to consider… Hackle has come so far in the past 15 to 20 years that most of the literature about it doesn’t apply as much unless you are still using old hackle. In regards to stiffness, saddle and cape hackle are identical if you are using high grade hackle, and I bet it could be argued that some capes are stiffer than saddles depending on the products being tested (it’s all relative). Also, in regards to “cone” shaped hackle… That is caused by the hackle feather being too short with very little sweet spot. Most of the hackle from today is long enough to get two to three flies from a single feather, so fibers are all identical in size for the whole (long) sweet spot.