I am having trouble with a certain brand of neck hackle twisting when used on dry flies both traditional and parachute styles. The brand is a very popular brand and I have their #2 necks in ginger, dun, cream, brown, and black, and I have trouble with all of them. I have started going to the Whiting company necks and have had no problems with twisting/rolling, but does anyone have any suggestions what I might be doing wrong with the other brand?
Tigfly,
This is why I try to never buy hackle I can’t handle.
Sometimes the stems twist. My experience is that if the stems twist on one feather, the whole neck is pretty much going to do it…
Of course, if you use A.K. Best’s style of hackling, it’s not a problem (I prefer it for western dries, they float better).
But, if you don’t want twist and have a neck that does that…use it for something else and buy one that doesn’t twist…
I’ll be curious if anyone has a ‘solution’ for this…
Buddy
Stripping the barbs from one side of the feather will allow it to lay on the hook on the stripped side… no twist.
Joe
thanks, Joe, I never thought of that! At least I can use these necks. Buddy, thanks also for your advice, just one question, I have a couple of Best’s books but I am not sure what his hackling technique is.
Usually there’s not much you can do to correct twist. I wonder if running your thumbnail along the stem and then winding with the flattened side against the hook will allow the hackle to wind without twisting? Just a thought.
Deezel
tigfly,
You may want to consider “investing” in a copy of the Fly Tiers Benchside Reference. This is a fabulous book on tying techniques and dressing flies for everything from thread control to woven bodies, upright wings, deer hair techniques and everything in between. It is NOT a patterns book, so don’t confuse it with patterns books. It retails for $100, but can be bought for less. I paid $65 for mine 6 years ago, and it’s well worth the money. Here’s a link for $63 with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Fly-Tiers-Benchside-Reference/dp/1571881263
Joe
I think that if you do that, the hackle will lay on the hook sideways, and the barbs will not remain in a vertical orientation.
Short of throwing the neck out, which would have been my initial response, I just happened to think this might work. Never actually tried it.
Deezel
Buddy - I would really like to know the A.K. Best style of hackling, do you know where I can find this method please? Thanks so much…
Jeanne
Tigfly,
I think I know the brand you’re talking about; have a few myself. I try to buy the best quality materials I can find, and it really ticks me off when a company charges a premium price for quality that falls short. Anyway, the stem gets smaller toward the tip of the feather. You might try trimming the feather so that you use more of the tip. In other words, if you have an inch of feather left when you finish wrapping the hackle, try trimming the stump end 1/2 inch shorter before you tie it in. Also, on traditional dry flies, a thin layer of dubbing under the hackle wraps sometimes helps. On parachutes, try taking two feathers, cut them in half and throw the stump end away. Use the two tips wrapped together in fewer wraps, in place of one whole feather. If this works, the problem is coming from the hackle stems and there isn’t a whole lot you can do about it. At least you will use up the crappy necks twice as fast this way.
Good fishing,
Arnie
Mr. Best goes into it in detail in his PRODUCTION FLY TYING.
I’d try to explain it, but it’s much harder to write it out than to do it.
What you end up with is hackle going both forwards and backwards from the thorax. It’s done by wrapping it on angles between and under the wings. Hackle twist is a non issue for this, actually helps. Gives the fly a broader footprint on the water. Ideal for flies used in faster waters.
Buddy
Thanks for that Buddy much appreciated.
Jeanne
Thanks Buddy, that is how I usually wrap these hackles anyway because of the way they twist (I think Marinaro called it a thorax style) I was really hoping that I just wasn’t doing something properly and could adjust my technique to correct the problem. If it hadn’t been for the Whiting necks wrapping so well, I would have continued to think I was doing something wrong. I have even tried dubbing the parachute posts to get them to wrap evenly and that works fair and in my opinion, gives more bulk to soak up water and sink sooner. Joe V, I will try to attend the NCFF (I just became a member last month at the conclave) Flytying Marathon meeting next week and maybe someone could give me some other options. In any case, I would like to look you up at the Marathon if you are attending. Thanks to all for your tips!
Good idea. There will be a brain trust there that can give you an answer to any question you may have. Heck, bring your medical problems as well, we got so many guys on different meds we could start a pharmacy. LMAO
I’ll be there and will probably have my rod wrapping setup so I can demonstrate rod building. I’ll be the only one with that setup, so I’ll be easy to find. Be sure to bring that neck with you so we can look at it.
Joe
Hi tigfly,
Back in the early 90s we ended up with a bunch of the necks like you mentioned when Gretchen and I bought out a flyshop that was going out of business. We found we could force the hackle to do it’s job on a standard-wrapped fly like a Royal Wulff by tying the feathers (we use two neck feathers at that time for our commercial ties) on the hook behind the wings. Of course when we started to wrap the first turn behind the wings the hackle would lay on it’s side. We found we could stop that tendancy by making the first turn of hackle tight in front of the wings then make the second and third turns behind the wings. From there we would wrap forward to the hook eye just like we would wrap a “non-turning” hackle. This process worked for us and may work for you as well. Also, we found you could use less of the feather (the top half only) and they would often wrap straight rather than twist.
Side note: We were sure glad to use up those necks and get back to using Hoffman/Whiting pelts from then on. Take care & …
Tight Lines - Al Beatty
www.btsflyfishing.com
Al, I’ll definitely try wrapping against the wings first. Also, I loved your article on dividing hair into two bunches and tying them against each other for a slimmer body. Started doing all my Comparaduns that way and they come out great especially in #18 and #20’s.
to help stop twist you can either strip the barbs from one side of the feather… or… (heres how i do it when i get a hackle that wants to twist) you can leave it whole without striping the barbs & run it over a counters edge of edge of the tying desk which will help to give the feather a flat side making it easier to mannage without waisting much of the feather… myself, once i strip barbs from one side of a feather i just use that feather for mainly tail material if its for standard wet / dry flies…some flies do call for striping barbs from one side of the feather…
Another thing to try is to use the rotary function to wrap the hackle. I find that I can keep a more uniform tension and control of the hackle this way.
Well, I tried all the suggested methods, and all of them worked to varying degrees of success. The best for me was stripping one side of the feather barbs but I found I only had to do it for the first wrap or so. It at first seemed to want to twist but after the first wrap it just straightened right out. Using the top half of the feather only worked OK but I had to use two feathers and the second feather tended to splay out the barbs anyway. However, interestingly enough, when I used two full feathers with the lower barbs stripped off both of them, the second feather did not splay out the barbs. Using the rotary function of the vise made all the methods work better and smoother when doing conventional hackling, and, I am kind of embarrassed to say, I never really used it much before because I thought I had to half hitch before I starting the rotating. I found out if I keep the hook shank directly in line with the rotation I did not need to half hitch first. I suppose that’s written in the basic flytying rules, I must have missed that one. Trying to flatten the stem was tough to do but if I got it on the right edge it helped, but I went through a number of hackles before I got it flattened right. Wrapping the first wrap tight in front of the wings and then behind worked OK once I figured out to attach the hackle with the stem pointing toward the bend. For the parachute ties, stripping the lower part of the feather worked well. So I guess with a little preparation I can tie with these necks. I have been tying for over fifteen years, and dealing with this problem for quite some time, so thanks to everyone for their suggestions/solutions! Thought everyone would like to know how it turned out for me. Sure am glad I became a member!!!
Contact the grower. Twisting hackle is something most growers fight the best they can but when it comes down to it they are dealing with an animal and there will be flaws among some bird despite the best breeding. Most growers will be more then happy to replace a “defective” neck because they know this.
Joe Fox