H&H's internal price wars?

FAOL Community Sound Off
1

"This is a response to the [i][b]All about flies[/b][/i] > [i][b]Fly Tying[/b][/i] > [i][b]substution for different furs and feathers.[/b][/i] thread"

Yep THATS the biggest reason why H&H is at the bottom of my list of viable sources. I found THREE different prices on their website for Moose Mane. The ‘old text pages’
http://www.hookhack.com/furhair.html#Anchor-MOOS-48578
lists moose mane for $1.75

The ‘shop online’ link http://shop4.mailordercentral.com/hookhack/products.asp?dept=969
from the above “text page site” list moose mane for $2.00 but if you click the “Special Pricing Available” link on this page it opens a THIRD freakin page:
http://shop4.mailordercentral.com/hookhack/prodinfo.asp?number=157MANE
listing moose mane for $1.80!! WTF???
All three list the same product as “Item Number: 157MANE”.

And I should trust them with my credit card info when they cant make up their mind what prices they are charging today? Why should I assume “Special Pricing” is available to the average customer?

Sponsor or not, but sorry Ron, if you want to make an impression on your customer base and have a real web presence, you should fire your webmaster, clean up your website and post the ACTUAL prices your charging.

2

Bass_Bug

I see your point on the one item, Moose Mane, on HookHackle. I really do not understand why you chose to “bash” a sponsor here on FAOL instead of just calling Hookhack and explaining to them what you found. There is a possibility that they are not aware of the web site problem and would appreciate your input. They might appreciate it enough to offer you a bigger discount just for showing them the problem. No, I do not work for Hookhack, I am a proud member of FAOL and I really appreciate all the sponsors who keep this site up and running and Hookhack is one of them.

I did print your list of fly tying items and went to Hookhack and “clicked” on each item and each one had a “Special Pricing” for web orders. When I make an order out to Hookhack (and I need to purchase from them more often) I always printed their order form with their “Special Pricing” for Web orders and then called them to place my order. I always explained to them that I just do not trust any web site with my credit card number info and they have always given me the “Special Pricing” with the 10% Web discount. No questions asked and they have always been very helpful and have a great customer service attitude.

The following is a total of the list of items you listed:

Janns total = $23.09 plus S/H of $7.95 = $30.96 (I did check your prices from Janns and found everything as you quoted except I never did find any “2 sided tinsel” even after using Jann’s search window. Also, the lead wire you quoted for $.69 is for 6 feet of lead wire wrapped on a piece of cardboard. Hookhack’s lead wire is on a spool (more convenient to use in a bobbin holder) and contains 15 feet of lead wire at $2.25.
Hookhack = $29.27 plus S/H of $7.95 = $37.22

This leaves a difference of $6.26 and in my opinion, Hookhack is a sponsor of FAOL and that is a small price to pay for their support of FAOL.

This post is not meant to upset anyone or offend anyone. I just get upset when people “bash” a supporting sponsor of FAOL.

3

I fully agree with WarrenP on this score, Bass Bug… I have placed many orders with H&H with not a single problem, and have found their service after the sale to be first rate. As well, I receive at least one if not more, sale offers from Ron every week.
I’m not trying to stir the pot either on this issue, but I am proud to be a part of FAOL, and without sponsors like H&H who can say where we’d be. In addition, Ron often has promoted special sale prices and items available only to FAOL folks. I agree, any issues you, or others may have with Ron, or H&H should be addressed with them directly. I think anyone will find that Ron will always do whatever it takes to solve the problem in an equitable manner. This is not the place to hammer our sponsors…ModocDan

4

20 cents?

Who cares?

5

Here are my thoughts on this…Ron & the folks at H&H are super to work with, PLUS they (and our other sponsors) PAY good money to sponsor this site that gives us so much. Warren is dead right…that is worth a little extra.
Now a little “first hand” story about H&H and how they handle mishaps. I had ordered the book “Woolly Wisdom” from Ron. They shipped the wrong book. I forget now what the title of the book I got was (it was a $30.00+ book), but I called Ron (this was in the Winter of the year). He IMMEDIATELY shipped the correct book along with some bunny strips & asked that I return the wrong book when I got around to it (note that the correct book was shipped BEFORE he got the other back). Well, when I FINALLY remembered (without any calls or letters from Ron), I gave it to Ron at a TU show in western Pa that Spring & I apologized for forgetting. He wasn’t a bit concerned. The man & company are class acts who are ethical, trusting, & trustworthy…certainly a credit to our sport & a wonderful Sponsor of this site.
Sorry for rambling…just felt the need to give H&H a well deserved public pat on the back.
Mike

6

Second on a thumbs up for Hook and Hackle. If they aren’t the cheapest, they are reasonably close, and the service from this nice group of guys (Ron and his staff) is terrific. I shop from them when I can, and plan on trying out some of their tippet and fly line soon when I finish up a 3 weight I’m working on.

7

I have done a fair amount of business with H&H. At first I didnot like them. Evereything I ordered was backordered. That was back when Ron was first taking over. Went back to them later on cause they offered a fair price on shipping and a item I wanted at a great low price. When I placed the order I got a call from Ron saying hey bud your credit card was denied. We went through the process of seeing what was wrong(had over a thousand dollars on it free and clear) got that straightened out and then I said I just missed your special for FAOL members. His reply was no you got it so wht if you were a day late not a problem. Been doiing business with him every since on a lot of items. Do I care that he is a sponser here as far as who I decide to purchase NO! I pay my money for items and how that company handles that order determines who I do business with. Do I care that they are a sponser here yes that is what keeps this site running. My 2 cents is if you got a beef with them call them. Ron is good people as is all his staff.

8

Agree with what folks have said thus far … I have talked to Ron on the phone several times and found him to be a stand up guy. I also have purchased a few things from H&H and have been well pleased. Give him a shout and explain what’s going on.

9

I looked at H&H yesterday when getting ready to order components for the rod I am building and bailed as the site was (is) a bit of a mess. However, I am glad to hear some of the back end stuff. I have sold stuff for this outfit or that for a long, long time and discovered long ago that you can create rock solid customer loyalty if you handle a screw-up the right way. Sounds like Ron does. I will have to give them a try next time around.

10

I have also always had excellent service and fair prices from H&H.

11

The intention of my post was not to bash H&H. I was merely pointing out the discrepancies in pricing on their web site from a list of items on another thread as my post started with. Also I never once questioned their customer service.

Besides, the description under “Sound off” says [FONT=Verdana]"Gripes and Grumbles, Hurrahs and atta-boys! Give your input on products you have tried, companies you have dealt with; a place to ask about a Company or product and get input from folks who have used it. All opinions are just that, take them or leave them." Bottom line, I’m stating my opinion based on looking at their web site for pricing, where I found THREE different prices for the same item. And FAOL doesn?t say “Please feel free to post your opinion, just as long as it only favors our sponsors”[/FONT]

WarrenP: [FONT=Verdana]“…with their “Special Pricing” for Web orders…” It’s a WEB SITE! If you’re adding items to a web ‘cart’ is it going to be anything BUT a web order. Sorry, but I fail to see the business logic in posting a higher price, only to have a lower price available IF you click the button. To me, this looks like the typical mark up an item so the sale price looks like a deal.[/FONT]
“…I never did find any “2 sided tinsel” even after using Jann’s search window…” I went back and typed in tinsel in the search and this page came right up http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Search/tinsel.aspx

Modocdan: [FONT=Verdana]“…As well, I receive at least one if not more, sale offers from Ron every week…” I do too, as does everyone else on their email list who signed up. I get email weekly specials from Cabela’s and Bass Pro as well and I certainly don’t think I’m one of their VIP customers.[/FONT]

Big Bad Wulff: [FONT=Verdana]“…20 cents? …Who cares?..” on one item maybe not, but $6+ on a $23 order?. I’m betting there are very few of the 9000+ members here who share your reasoning or have the financial independence to not care about the price being over 25% more? Would you pay 25% more for a $500 rod? [/FONT]

OhioTuber: [FONT=Verdana]“…(note that the correct book was shipped BEFORE he got the other back)…” Did he have your credit card number from the original order? Sending replacemnet parts for computers before the bad part is returned is SOP in the tech field. If they dont get the bad part back in so many days/weeks they automatically bill you. [/FONT]

ol’blue: [FONT=Verdana]“…If they aren’t the cheapest, they are reasonably close…” 25% more is not reasonably close.[/FONT]

kbproctor: [FONT=Verdana]“…as the site was (is) a bit of a mess…” THAT is my entire point!!! They just need update the website and post the actual price.[/FONT]

Everyone says “great service”. But as I said above I never questioned their customer service. The topic came up from the original list of items meant to be ‘some of the most basic items a beginner tyer can get for $25’. I posted the prices from Jann’s and also from H&H, since there are many H&H dedicated customers here. And then Norm replied ‘i think you need to click on the “BUY” button to get the real prices on the h&h website for a true comparison.’. So I went back and that’s when I found 3 separate prices for every item. THAT is base of my rant. Nothing more, nothing less.

I’m not saying I don’t or won’t patronize H&H, I’m just saying their web site leaves a bit to be desired. I’m not pushing Jann’s either just saying they had better prices. (They have great service as well by the way, but thats another topic).

12

It is normal practice these days to have to add an item to the cart to get the final price in many cases. I don’t particularly care for it, either, but go to a LOT of teh electronics websites, and see what you find. “Add to Cart to see price” “Price so low we can’t advertise it” You see it all the time. Annoying? YES! Unusual? No.

13

You asked, so I’ll answer…NO he did NOT! Not that it’s any of your business, but I paid with a check.
Now a question for you. Can’t you accept ANY differing opinions or statements from yours without debating them? Answer or not…I really don’t care.
Mike

14

I couldn’t tell you how much stuff that I ordered from Ron, but I know that it is a bunch. I have had a few items b/o and everytime when H and H received them Ron would always send something extra or not even charge me for it. The only promblem that I have had with them was quickly resolved with a quick call. I will always purchase stuff from them and encourage others to do the same.

15

then the website should not post 1 price or even no price, then the discounted price when the item is put in the cart. who are they hiding the price from?

hook and hackle needs an “extreme website makeover” to be in step with all of the other online fly shops that only advertise 1 price unless its a sale.

you dont see feather craft, cabelas, the fly shop etc doing this type of showing one price then another when you add it to the cart.

if they are gonna give everybody a discount then thats the 1 price we all pay. dont hide a different price behind the “buy” button

i will have to agree with bass bug on this one.

customer service has nothing to do with multiple levels of pricing

stop the multiple level pricing

16

I have had no issues with ordering from H&H. Zero. I have had instances where I have recieved personal communication from Ron on something I purchased. As far as I am cononcerned, he has great prices, great shipping rates, great customer service and a great reputation. I will continue to order from him (even moose mane, if I ever need it) whether or not I have to look in the cart to see the sale price or not. I don’t think that H&H has an extinsive IT department to keep their site updated to the cutting edge. For the prices that he charges, I can deal with it. I also know that if the price that you see is not correct, you will get billed the correct price. I have had it happen, TWICE. The only place I have ever had to sweat a few cents is when I order from Amazon to try to get over $25 bucks for free shipping.

17

Mike, Sorry if I struck a nerve. My question about the cc info was rhetorical. I was just meaning that with any mail order, if they already have your order information then they have very little risk of sending you out a replacement item before they get the other back. Before you say it, NO many companies will NOT do this. The fact that H&H does is indeed a feather in their hat! I’ll certainly give them Kudos for that!

Yes I accept others opinions but they should pertain to that actual topic. That said, the level customer service was NEVER part of the original post. Nor was having any issue with an order. It was simply that their website has multiple (and unnecessary) pricing levels. But only a couple of the replies address the fact that the website has 3 posted prices. If someone is OK with this pricing game then isn’t that what their reply should convey?
but if you read everything you’ll only find that 2 of the replies have addressed the pricing issue.

18

H&H is always my first “goto” for shopping. They have always provided excellent service. :slight_smile:

19

Just got my computer back from a long service overhaul and what do I find…my old buddy Bass_Bug having stepped in it royally. Full disclosure:1. I’ve know BB a long time and 2. He is a gentleman who cares about the opinion of others and listens well.

That said, it does appear he’s corrrect that his post was specific to a pricing issue (he is something of a stickler :rolleyes:) and only a couple of replies addressed his specific subject.

Misperceptions can be damaging and it would be sad if Bass_Bug were misperceived.
Coughlin

20

I understand Bass_Bugs concern, but would a note (e-mail, phone call) to Ron be the proper way of discussing this issue? Ron/Hook and Hackle is a sponsor here on FAOL, but that doesn’t mean Ron can sit and monitor this site all day, every day, and jump to “answer” posts on this board. If you have a question, gripe, huzzah, take it to the horses mouth! No, that’s not right … put the huzzahs on here!:rolleyes: