There were some very good posts in another thread, regarding guides and their dilemmas but I wanted to examine another side of the issue of guides. That is the issue of a good guide from the perspective of the “sport”, the client. One of the nice things about the Michigan Fish-In is that the water was strictly C&R. I hired a guide for a half day float trip. He is a grad student working for the summer. Folks, I can tell you that my guide put me on fish in the shade, in the sun, in the rain, in the mists and fog, and in the wind. He pointed out some flaws in my fishing, including the reason why I was having trouble setting the hook. He gave me pointers and tips that worked in his boat and will work in other places. To that end, I would like to say that if any of you are up at Rusty’s this summer, Joe Guild (rhymes with wild) is a heck of a guy, and guide. He knew how to handle the boat. He knew how to put his cubical-dwelling “sport” onto fish and how to increase his hookset rate. He knew how to joke around and have a good time. He knew how to retrieve flies from trees! He had the patience of Job. More than anything else, the great time I had that morning is why I am trying to wrangle another short trip up to Gate’s Lodge before winter sets in up there. If I get back up there while Joe is there, then I’ll try to go back out with him. I know that there are good and conscientious guides all over and that others deserve having their clients call attention to what they have done. I can only speak for the one guide that I have ever hired. Joe Guild, take a bow.
(Note that Joe is working towards a Master’s Degree in education. From what I have seen, he is well on the way to mastering the art of educating people.)
Great idea, EdD.
Sounds like you found a good one.
I imagine it’s like asking folks what is a good steak. You’ll get some basics about what is NOT good that are in common and a few that ARE good in common, but mostly you’ll see that tastes run the gamut between raw and charred solid…so spicy you can’t taste the meat to no flavor but the beef…and so forth.
For ME, I want a guide who is properly licensed, trained, and insured first of all. I want him/her to go BEYOND the minimal qualifications of the law in his/her jurisdiction to acquire training pertinent to his/her job. ANY outdoor guide should be a competent and certified safety expert, technical skills expert, and outdoor survival expert. He/she should be schooled in the basics of how to deal with the wide variety of people (personalities, disabilities, etc.) they will serve. These are the minimum qualifications in my book.
Next, I want a true local area expert. Why would I hire a GUIDE who doesn’t know the river, swamp, etc. in question much better than anyone else who has been there a couple times and has a good map/GPS? You see this a LOT with foreign trips and the guys who guide in Alaska for 1 summer or up north during the summer and down in the tropics during the winter (following the tourists). I want someone with 100+ days/year on the river for at least 3-4 years prior to our trip…the river we’re going to be on, that is. You cannot get to know a river well enough to be a safety expert or fishing expert on that river unless you have “seen it all” over a considerable amount of time and exposure.
Finally, I want an honest and thoughtful guide who knows how to read people and show them a good time. He/she needs to be a good entertainer, host/hostess, and companion. If meals are part of the deal, then he/she needs to be a good cook, as well. Any idiot can make a boloney sandwich. You PAY for something special. And I want all of this wrapped in a package who is sharp enough to know when to take control and when to lay back. He/she should know how to wrap advice in a compliment or three and turn his/her good idea into the client’s good idea.
FYI, I DO know some of these people and I routinely recommend them to others. But if I had to guesstimate, I’d say they are the top 5-10% of the bunch.
EdD;
You forgot to mention your Ausable Grand Slam while being guided by joe!
A grand slam! Definitely hire him again!
I have hired a local guide once a year for the last 5 years or so. I do that to learn new places, techniques etc. I have also hired a Tout guide in CO and a saltwater guide in Key West. I have liked them all. Grading them I would do the following.
Local Trout Guide - A+
Key West - A+++
CO Trout Guide - B+
I think a good guide does the following:
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Allows me to communicate what I want from the trip
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Will communicate back to me the reality of where we will be fishing
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Is patient
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Is not overly bossy, but will tell me when I am doing something wrong or should try something different. Will also let me know if I and not doing what he told me to do. In other words, your are guiding me, I am listening but be NICE about it!
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Clearly communicated details. Does the guide charge for flies? Is a meal provided? The CO guide charged me for flies and I didn’t know it till the trip was over. The Saltwater guide did not provide lunch but did clearly communicate that to me before the trip.
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Is willing to be flexible. If I am not having luck where we are and the guide is not suggesting something else, or moving, then I will suggest it.
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Put me on fish! The Key West guide put me on a bunch of Tarpon. I saw thousands in the week I was fishing. I hooked 9 but didn’t land any. The guide did his job, the rookie Tarpon fisherman (me) didn’t do his!
Their job is to provide the opportunity to catch fish. I don’t know how they can guarantee catching fish . . .
-wayne
Yeah, Wayne, that’s an advantage a bird hunting guide has if he’s sneaky. I’ve cleaned up many a winged bird for clients over the years. But that’s the only time I ever shot with customers. They all knew I would do it, but some never knew that I actually DID. A fishing guide cannot do that for his/her customers. It’s not like he can cast really quickly and re-hook the fish you just lost. LOL I’ve seen “catch fish guaranteed” guide advertisements. I’ve often thought, “I wonder if I could book them, go out and wait too long on every hook set all day…just play for the strike…and then get a refund at the end of the day?” Or what if they fish all day and the client only lands one dinky little fish right at the beginning? Do they offer a refund, partial refund, or say “a-ha! You caught a fish, so you’re SOL, buddy!” :lol:
Wayne:
GREAT LIST !! 8)
Someone on this site or another recently asked about tipping of guides. I wish I had your list to go by when I responded to him. If the guide does all the things on your list, I recommend a tip, especially if he adds to my fly fishing knowledge and skills through his helpful guidance.
Thanks.
Dr Bob
You bet I have a favorite. See page 80 in “You Can’t Make a Living Tying Flies” on the ebook page of www.HATofMichigan.org I’ll take the Preacher anytime. But I have been with many other fine guides too. And some not so fine.
Bobinmich
I am in the process of obtaining a NY guide lisence and learning rivers enough to offer services. This has been an eye opening post for me.
I have had one guided trip for salmon in my life and a second comming up this september. My first guide did everything I asked of him except provide food. I will soon book a trip with him in the salt of cape cod.
I have always been under the impression that a guide should conduct himself in a manor that he would want his clients to conduct themselves near him while they were both fishing independantly. As a guide I would hope to teach newer fishers stream etiquette as well as how to catch fish. I would concetrate on education that would help my client catch fish in other locations as well as the water I took them. If the client didn’t want to lean, but only catch fish I would do that too. Customer satisfaction would be number one, what they want and expect would be my first prioroty however my own morals could not be compromised. All laws would be followed, all hooks would be barbless, and all fish released, unless the customer wanted to keep hatchery fish that were legal to keep within their own limits and they were all but gauranteed to be eaten.
I find it sickening that some people would conduct themselves in a manor as others have portrayed, especially as a hired guide. Being a guide to me means being a diplomat for conservation as well as helping a newer generation into the sport. I am glad that a few still possess the will to offer quality experiences, and I sincerely hope that they are the norm as opposed to the exception of some that are only out there for monetary gain.
To those that do it right I commend you and hope to follow in your boots. And shame on those who take advantage of those who don’t know any better becuse of their naivite for the sport.
You want to take another stab at this one? I don’t think it’s what you are TRYING to say, but this leaves me thinking that you think a guide’s job is to go fishing and let a client pay to tag along. A good guide does NOT fish with clients. He might demonstrate something, but that’s about it.
Like I said, I don’t think that’s what you meant, but I’d really like to know what it is you ARE trying to say instead of just thinking I might know.
I could have said it more clearly.
A guide should act and teach his clients how to act on the river the way he would act and would like others to act towards him as if they were both fishing as strangers near eachother on a different day. I did not mean that the guide should fish with his client while for hire. Hopefully that is a bit more clear. And isn’t that how a guide should act?
Yes, that’s more clear. My answer: One of the most important books of the past decade was written by a U of Chicago Professor and is titled Everything I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten.
Unfortunately, most folks still haven’t read it.
I’ve done a fair amount of drift boat fishing…[not on the Deschutes…can’t fish from the boat there]… with some pretty darn good guides and I came to the conclusion that the good guides were “fishing” as hard as I was…a knowledgeable… and good guide on the oars… has the boat in position and is controlling the drift of the fly as much or more than many fisherman…I don’t think many clients actually know what is going on
Just curious because I couldn’t go myself. What is the Au sable grand slam?
AuSable Grand slam:
A Spike Burger, Tuber’s Fudge, Leinie’s Red and a Perch dinner at Gates… 
GBF
Mark (mcsteff) is only partly right. The “Other” Grand Slam is a Brookie, a Brown and a Rainbow!
Hint: It’s the rainbow that’s hard to get. They are in short supply in the Au Sable. Apparently the brookies keep eating them… :shock:
Ed
Rainbows are not uncommon in the main branch. There are some big stream bows below Mio. I have never caught a brookie in the main branch. Just in the north and south branches because they like the colder water. I have never caught a bow in the north or south branch however. But browns are everywhere. Big browns. Big night time browns. Big, big, night browns.
Grand slam isn’t hard. Unless you want to do it in just one spot.
Bob Bolton
I floated the main branch from Gate’s down to a take out point. There were little brookies everywhere. I got a fair number of smaller brookies, up to 8". I got several browns and a lone rainbow. I was pleased since I had been doing very hit or miss earlier. I also learned the Tennessee trout and Au Sable River trout like very different flies. Down here, yellow is gold. Up there, yellow is dross. Oh well, live and learn. I enjoyed my stay and I plan to go back up for a few days iat the end of September. I have room for 1 passenger in the truck.
Ed
p.s. I ate an olive burger at Spike’s for 'tuber.
I stand corrected Ed. I guess I never catch brookies there is because I rarely fish it during the day. This section of the river is not stocked like it is below Mio so there would be fewer rainbows there. And the steelhead are stopped well downstream by the first power dam so there won’t even be baby bows (steelhead smolt). I’ll have to brave the canoes and day fish it sometime. I really like the water from the TU station to Wakely at night. I like to fish Keystone at night too - down to Thendera.
Below Mio you will find big bows and big browns. Too warm for brookies I’ll bet - but I only fish late.
North branch is a good day time brookie stream but access is more limited. And the north has some really big browns - 2 foot class.
Bob Bolton