I’m looking at my tube of Shoe Goo, where Toluene is the first ingredient then only petroleum distillate. In products regulated by the US FDA, ingredients are listed in order of quantity, the largest always first. Dont know if this applies to chemicals.
Looking at the MSDS for Shoe Goo from Eclectic Products, Inc., the maker of Shoe Goo, the MSDS list the main ingredient as Toluene, (same as product package) and then list the solvent as naptha, which now that I think about it, naptha is what LeRoy and Dave say to thin Shoe Goo with.
So is toluene and naptha sold separatly like acetone, turpentine etc. Never noticed it at Ace, but then never looked for it either. Guess this calls for a field trip to the hardware store tomorrow.
Toluene may be the ingredient of largest quantity, but it is not the main ingredient. Like a cup of coffee, the main ingredient isn’t water, but water is the ingredient with the most quantity. Toluene is the carrier (as well as the petroleum distillates), and the glue part is actually relatively small. They have to list the MSDS controlled ingredients, but the proprietary ingredients that make the glue work are not listed because they are not MSDS controlled. The information you are looking at is not an ingredients list but a list of ingredients to which there are health hazards.
Bass_Bug…as I said others will work…naptha being one of them…but you don’t have to get naptha…just get the toluene…at Ace…Lowes…Home Depot …or just about any paint store…
I’ve got jars and jars of various consistencies …mostly because if a tube doesn’t get used up and it starts to harden I cut the tube open salvage the goop in a jar and dissolve it with toluene…I have also dissolved some very hard goop that hardened in jars by adding toluene.
Crazy touched on it nicely. Toluene is thin like paint thinner, watery in consistency. The Shoe Goo is thick, like the consistency of a caulking. You get the idea. The more Toluene you add the thinner the consistency becomes. You thin it down to what works for you.
One of the things that crazy also mentioned, which makes it my preferred glue for head cement is that toluene does evaporate quickly, this means that drying time is very short. At first I was using a head cement applicator that was a small jar like Fleximent with a bodkin in it but it thickened up quicker and needed more thinner more often then I went to this applicator and absolutely love it: http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=20KT
Yes, maybe you could let the other stuff thicken up and use it as a shoe repair material, but that wouldn’t be very cost efficient.
Finally bought a quart of Toluene from my local ACE hardware. Lifetime supply for $8.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]
I’m no chemist but I do know you cant use just ANY solvent in any product, is has to be compatible with what you’re trying to thin, or you can get poisonous, toxic or even explosive reactions. Alcohol is considered a solvent as well, but it will not thin Shoe Goo.
I guess what confuses me is that both Naphtha and Toluene are considered solvents (and the mfg only lists naphtha as the solvent), and they are the ONLY two listed ingredients in Shoe Goo. If neither are the binder ingredients then wouldn’t thinning with BOTH make more sense and give you the desired properties?
The idea is too make a similar product only thinner right?. You can add paint thinner to enamel paint, but if you add too much, you no longer have paint, you have tinted paint thinner
Just wondering why some of you guys same don’t use naphtha, use toluene, while noted tyers say thin toluene products with naphtha? And they say Flexament is just toluene thinned with naphtha. Not saying who’s right and who’s wrong, but there are two distinct opinions.
I’m not sure about toluene, but naphtha is fairly easy to come by. It’s Coleman fuel. Just make sure you don’t get any of the “power blends” out there. Anything marketed as “white gas” is naphtha (or, at least, it used to be) but I’d read the labels on everything to be sure.
I said other solvents would work …not all…I have never used naptha [just taking the word of the above posts…
Why bother with naphtha…just use what’s already in it…
I was told by a noted tyer…whoever they are…that Dave’s Flexament was Sho-Goo thinned with toluene…BTW I think originally it was Sho-Goo…at least as I remember it preceded Goop…when Flexament came out.
I have used xylene successfully as a solvent also…for flexament…was told it is the solvent in Soft-Tex which is that stuff you dip tool handles into …whatever it’s called.
As you said all solvents don’t work…e.g. acetone will thin Sally Hanson’s but not Goop…believe I tried that once and got jelly:(.
Since we are beating this to death…when I use full strength Sho- Goo to repair …it seems to dry hard…and when I use Goop it seems to dry a little softer…my thinking is the softer is better for our tying purposes…so I use it rather than the shoe stuff…anyone else note that?
The deal with toluene in my area is that you can buy it at Menards and paint stores yes, but only in gallons for $20, Ace was the only place that solid it in quarts.
I have used a product called Opps, it is similar to Goo Be Gone but the msds said it was a substaintial portion toluene so I have used it in the past because I had it on hand. Have to agree though use the right product to thin another product.
Thats my point Duck, Naphtha IS in Shoe Goo. Toluene and Naphtha are the ONLY items listed as ingredients in Shoe Goo. On the package, and in the Manufacturer’s MSDS. Take a look.
I was always under the impression from watching LeRoy Hyatt & Dave Engerbretson, who often had Dave Whitlock (of DAVE’S FLEXAMENT) on their show, that Flexament was just Shoe Goo (toluene) thinned with naphtha, which is what they always said.
So when some of you guys said to make Flexament, just thin Shoe Goo with Toluene. Me, thinking that Shoe Goo WAS toluene with naphtha as the solvent, then to thin it with the chemical thats NOT listed as the solvent , didn’t make sense.
Shoo-Goo may[apparently does] have naptha and Goop not have it…
my tube of Goop says…toluene and petroleum distillates
At any rate…Toluene is not “the” ingredient in Flexament or Shoo-Goo or Goop…
You will not make anything stick with toluene…but you can thin some things.
Darn, now you made me miss the beginning of O’Riley.
Edit: Just looked up the MSDS of Goop…naphtha not listed as an incrediant but is listed as the solvent…so Bug_Man I say you should get the naphtha… what the heck you can run your Coleman’s on it too…I’m going to stick with my quart of Toluol…aka toluene… with the $3.99 sticker on it.
BTW…I just used some thinned Goop to adhere a tape measure to my furling board and to clean over flow from the board I used toluene…it removed it nicely
Toluene is not a glue, or a jelly, or anything else. If you take pure toluene and let it dissolve, the residue (if any at all) is not sticky or goopy. If toluene was the goopy part, it would leave a residue. Toluene is a solvent. It is impossible for a solevent to be a glue. A solvent can be a carrier for a glue, but it cannot be a glue, it simply lacks the chemical properties to make it a glue. As I mentioned earlier, the list on the packaging is not a complete list of ingredients, but a list of MSDS controlled substances. By FDA law, foods and drugs must list all ingredients, but nothing else has to list all ingredients. Paints don’t, fuels don’t, smokes don’t. That’s because for most of these prodects, listing the ingredients would be devulging proprietary secrets. If they don’t have to list it, they won’t. The exception is the listing of MSDS controlled chemicals, which are those that pose health risks. But the regulations are to list only those chemicals, not all of the chemicals.
I really didn’t know that naptha was a key component. Go get some and try it and let us know how it works for you. I already bought the Toluene from Ace, but I guess I have Naptha in the house already. Interesting twists on a wax thread.
an interesting side note, toluene used to be avaliable just about everywhere in quarts. Then it became a favorite of brain dead chemical huffers. Its a lot harder to steel a gallon than a quart so I guess thats why you cant find it in quarts anymore.
OK, Eric I’m taking that as a challenge…going to search out our stores here and see …of course my brain is so addelled [SP] because of it …I won’t remember .
If anybody is planning to buy a small quantity of NAPTHA for thinning you don’t have to buy quarts. RONSONOL lighter fluid is napfha and is available in some drug stires in small
5 oz. containers.
Finally made it to Ace. Side by side on self in the solvent section was Toluol (Toluene) and VM&P (Naphtha) both for $7.49/qt. Also on the shelf was Xylol (Xylene), MEK (Methel Ethyl Ketone) and Acetone. All in Ace brand quart containers.
So based on this entire thread I’ve come to conclusion that LeRoy Hyatt & Dave Engerbretson have THEIR information not quite right!
Now my only question on thinning Shoe Goo is, if it contains both toluene AND naphtha, whats the difference in thinning with only one of teh two versus using both. I’m just thinking, “why are both in it it the first place?”
