Wednesday night I was at a meeting, held locally, to get more women interested in the sport of fly-fishing.
One of the presenters, obviously there to sell his product, was blatant in his feelings of other rod companies, the materials used for the rods, the attire worn, and women?s inability to use products created for men. Bamboo was pass? unless it was a Granger; fiberglass was cheap and noodle-y; boron was fragile; graphite useless unless really long and at least 6# (women can?t cast without the advantage of a long, heavy rod, with a grip designed only for women).
Being a very nice person, :roll:, I sat there biting my tongue till it almost bled.
The next guy spoke of the virtues of the Sharkskin line, and I had the feeling that if I wasn?t using the SS and the designed only for women rod, I wasn?t worthy of fly-fishing! I sort of blacked out at this point.
What are your thoughts on this? I don?t think you all would actually post that you thought women were second (or third or fourth) class fishers ? but are you in favor of women fly-fishing? (At least not next to you!!) Do you agree with the generalities expressed about the rods? Should I have jumped up and told him he was out of his freekin? mind? :shock: Women can do whatever they want, with whatever they want to use, in whatever they want to wear?
In my opinion, which counts for little, I would think an introduction to fly fishing would talk to why fly fishing is fun, what equip. is needed, how to get said stuff at a reasonable cost. Suggesting to even a seasoned fly fisher that brand X is the only way to go would only upset most folks unless they happened to have that brand. I suspect your presenters did not sell anyone on their equipment.
There is a gun writer that passed away last year, Named Jeff Cooper, he made the point that if (in the 48 contiguas (sic) states) you couldnt do it with a 45 ACP handgun you didnt need a bigger hand gun you needed a 30-06 If you couldnt do it with a 30-06 you needed somthing with a lanyard. Both of those cartridges were developed before world war one. When one of the gun companies came out with somthing bigger better etc he would ask (in his private writings) what will it do that a 30-06 wont. and for the most part he was right.
this is a long rambeling way of saying that those peoples agenda isnt selling you what you need, its making what you need seem wrong so you will buy somthing “biger and better.” I welcome the ladies to fly fishing, hunting, all the traditional “mens” outdoor activities, but you are a large group and they will try to market to you. I guess what it comes down to is, smaller grips are wonderful for those with smaller hands both male and female, purple rods are great for those who like purple, if it works for you great, if the sales pitch ticks you off, tell the guy and the company he works for (if he ticks you off he will be doing the same to others) and purchase a different brand. The good will survive, the bad will become collectors items, and the fisher people willl keep on fishing.
And if I ever get the oppertunity to fish with you I might not fish next to you you but I will stand real close and watch alot, I know that I can learn more from watching you fish than I can standing 50 yards down river. (the same goes for VEE and LF and the other ladies who frequent this board.)
Betty,
I’m for manufacturers making so called “Women’s Fly Stuff”, but NOT happy that they tried to twist your arm, belittle or generalize about women in FF. Last February? at the FF Show I saw a Lady from Colorado selling Women’s FF colored apparel, but she wasn’t trying to insult anyone. The manufacturers might be trying to lure women into FF with fashionable stuff.
Doug
Betty, you would have done any novice fisherwomen in attendance a big favor if you had marched up to the podium and told everyone just what you said in the last sentence of your post. Sometimes people who are trying to market a product (like women’s fishing gear) go overboard. A wise consumer will always discount an unknown salesman’s spiel by at least 50%. Usually his motive has more to do with his own commissions and profits than getting you outfitted at a reasonable cost.
I’ve found generally that products, especially for outdoors purposes, designed for women won’t hold up as well as things made for the men. They’re too light, too thin, too cute-sey, and are maybe ok for the first 5 minutes. I don’t believe womens attention spans are that short, or that superficial.
BY … even waders. Again, if you want to look cute on the stream, maybe. But if you’re intent of fishing, it doesn’t matter! Cinch the belt up tighter! We’ve got two legs and two feet … and just want to be dry and, well, dry! Blue? Teal? Purple? Do the fish care?
I’d imagine that this guy was 2 months late on his car payment and all of his credit cards were maxed out. It sounds like he was screaming “I need sales or I’m screwed!”
re: women and fly fishing. This is always a touchy subject for many, so I’ll tread lightly.
Let me first say that I’d give almost anything if I could get my wife to go fly fishing with me.
As far as women-specific gear. I think its a good idea, but not for the reasons most people think. If the gear is meant to fit a woman better physically, then thats great. I know I wouldn’t want to use something that was anatomically shaped for a woman! :shock: If folks are making and marketing gear for women so that using that gear makes them “equal” to man…that’s total BS. By trying to cater to one side, you are saying that they need that “special” treatment. I don’t think thats what most women want. Don’t you just want to be viewed as equal? Marketers should realize that women can do what men can do with the SAME STUFF and they don’t need a special one.
I view this whole subject as the age-old debate on equality. Are men and women equal? Nope. Men are good at somethings, women are good at everything else (generally speaking of course, there are always exceptions). That’s why there are both sexes. One compliments where the other lacks.
Do I have a problem with the opposite sex doing the same stuff I do? No way! I think guys that do have that problem are afraid of getting beat by a girl.
For those who think flyfishing is a man’s sport and women need special equipment because of their physic, I have only two words: They are: Joan Wulff
Women are IMHO inherently better flycasters than most men because they have the patience to do properly timed presentations. I know my daughter could cast better with one day’s instruction than I could when I had over a year of experience.
What happened to “There is no wrath like woman scorned”? Betty you are waaaaaaay to nice. It sounds to me like these guys were trying to intimidate you to buy their brands. My wife who fishes with me ( but not FF) is just like you and would not say anything. However…
My two step daughters are different matter all together. They grew up in different times I guess. I don;t think these guys would get away in one piece.
If more women would get involved in outdoor activities then said activities would only get better.
JC,
This doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t marketing about targeting?? Any manufacturer that markets products is trying to find a niche. What is the offense when your trying to introduce other people into fly fishing besides men? Women will speak, by either buying the products or not buying them.
Doug
I think you and the other women attending should have walked out. That would have sent a message loud and clear that you don’t appreciate idoit logic being presented.
I’m with wild one, I’d give about anything if I could get my wife to go fly fishing with me, she’s just not into it.
As for women fly fishing, or any other kind of fishing, fabulous ! ! When I was a little boy, it was my mom, grama, and aunt who got me started fishin’ with a bamboo cane pole with the line tied onto it, and a big cork bobber…catfishin’. I’ve been a fisherman ever since. My dad liked to fish, but he never got into it with me till I was well into my teens and had already been at it a good while. If women can swing a rod, they can flyfish. They can tie flies, play fish, wade, and all the rest pretty much as well as they learn to, just like men. I can see some personal attire maybe being made a little different to fit women, but like Betty said, most of the ladies only stuff I’ve seen wasn’t up to the rigors of years of use in many cases.
My advice, Betty…Shine the fools on, They’re stupid, ignorant , foolish, or all three, maybe more. You spend energy bein’ mad, or tellin ‘em off, you’re wastin’ your time and energy. You ain’t gonna fix 'em.
Be a fisherwoman, and be happy and proud. I think by far the majority of guys fishing out there see it this way. and listen to J.C. too! Happy fishin girl ! !..ModocDan
Betty, I’m going to go back to something you wrote, I for one don’t find women second, third or fourth class in fishing.
In my very humble opinion, I have stated many times that I think women have the ability to be the best of fisherman (fisherwomen) because they have something most men don’t have and that is patience. I have seen too many women stick with something far longer than most men would have and were rewarded because of it.
I would cherish the opportunity to fish with you anytime and learn from you. Men just have to make themselves feel better about themselves sometimes by feeling like they are putting someone in “their place”. Don’t dwell on this because it isn’t worth it, and by the way, you did the right thing. You didn’t have to get up and tell them they were idiots, they did that for themselves.
Betty,
Your a special person to me. Men can be competitive, need their egos stroked, need special attention, hands held, approval. Women have the qualities to fly fish better than men, because women don’t need to prove how good they are, men do (insecure). Your going to meet resistance in a man’s manufacturing and marketing world, but I appreciate You!!
Doug
Betty
I wish my wife was there with you, those salesmen would have been in the corner begging for mercy.
She has out fished me both in size and numbers, much to my delight I might add as it has solidfied her love of FF.
She also demands that “salesmen” and saleswomen give her the respect and service that she deserves. Deal fairly and don’t blow smoke up YOU KNOW WERE and you will have a very loyal customer in her.
I truly believe that the salesmen were only out for the bucks and not professionals they did not care about building a strong customer base female and/or male…
What he was saying crossed the line into sexual harrasment, by definition, if it made you feel bad then it was wrong, hope he will get tuned in and not invited back.
I do not care who you are, what colour, what team you play on, or any of that other stuff - do you want to go fly fishing ? That is it about the only thing that matters
I hope to work at Wholesalesports some day and you have my and Ann’s permission to cuff me in the back of the head if I am ever so rude …
I’m kind of surprised you are asking the question about whether males want or will tolerate female fisherpersons…You of all people should know that most of us would not only welcome female fisherspersons but cherish the day spent on the river. You should have no doubt.
What is really confusing is that these sales folks were presenting at an event trying to encourage more female fisher folks. It would seem to me that these guys blew their opportunity but I’m also pretty sure that they are oblivious of the indiscretions. I can even imagine that they are pretty sure they were offering sage advice (hope it wasn’t a sage salesman). In my mind with the limitired information on the event I’m more inclined to suggest that you speak to the organizers of the event and point out how these folks inadvertently or blatantly insulted your sensibilities. We need these events to be successful. A thought, though. If more women are to take up flyfishing is there a need in that population, currently not fishing, to somehow set themselves off from male fisher folks? I’ve noticed for instance that in the backpacking community there are a number of women only groups that seem to really bring out folks that otherwise would not participate. I’m wondering if the next time an event like that is held in town that one BH should be involved to make sure the goals are achieved. You obviously bring some practicalities to the table that the organizers must not have thought about. Let me know when you do because my wife, for the first time in 37 years indicated a nearly imperceptibly small interest in the sport. This would be one happy dude if she were to decide to take up flyfishing. I’ve already indicated that it’s not going to be me that tries to do the instruction.
(the same goes for VEE and LF and the other ladies who frequent this board.)