I have been trying to furl a leader using flurocarbon and have been unsuccessfull as of now. The first time I tried it with Sportsmans Wharehouse Fluro and it broke snapped. Second time I tried to use Rio Poweflex and same thing happpened, but I did have enough left to be able to connect and redo the first leg. This time instead of breaking it crawled up as I was hanging it to unfurl and combine the two legs. I am guessing that I didn’t have enough presure on them as I was furling in fear of breaking them, as they are very pricey. Why is the Fluro so hard to furl in comparison to my thread leaders? I have no problem what so ever with them.
I’ve done several fluoro leaders with Berkley Vanish 2# test. I’ve used the same configuration ( 10-8-6 ) and proportions ( 40% butt - 30% mid - 30% tip ) and the same tension as I do on my thread leaders. This fluoro material doesn’t take as much twisting as thread does to end up with a nicely furled leader.
I wonder if you are “overtwisting” the material - which could account both for the breakage and the “crawling” problem - try backing off a bit.
I just finished makeing 60 leaders (5’ & 7’) out of Berkley Vanish 2# test for a show and did not have a problem! Made 60 out of 4# without any problem too! I also did 60 each out of Berkley XL Mono with out incedent!
The "crawling = pigtailling…which means not enough tension…[“pressure”] as you said. Very important to always maintain tension.
The breakage is because of “overtwisting” as John said…that would be relative to the tension applied as you are twisting…you need the right combination.
The “Pig Tailing” will happen if the legs are twisted to tightly or if slack is allowed in it when hanging to furl (letting the weight bounce will do it).
I no longer hang Fluoro or Mono leaders to furl. I have a snap swivel mounted on the end of a piece off dowel. Hook a paper clip in the tippet end of the leader legs. Keeping tension on the legs lift them off the peg, the leader will furl as you relax tension. A few gentle pull and relax motions will finish it. A top of the line swivel and a drop or 2 of oil help.
I have been using this method for a couple of years after losing too many leaders to the bouncing weight!!
I understand how over twisting is going to break my leaders. My set up is with a 10% reduction. I am starting at 97’ and doing a 10’ reduction, so it is just over 10%. Would I be better off going at 9.5’ then? I have a board with a two leg set up, and use a hand drill to furl. My taper is 60, 15, 15, 5, 5. I was using the tippet material so I could get a smaller diameter material to match my rod weight that I am using. The 2lb Vanish is .006’ (.15mm) which is bigger than the .005 (.13) that I am looking for to do a 6-8 weight for my friend to take Salmon and Steelhead fishing. the wraps on what I was using would be 3,2,1 (14,10,6), where as the Vanish would be a 2,2,1 aand aa 1 on the second leg (10, 8,6). These are all with the half loops added on. Would this make a differance as there would be hardly any taper on the Vanish material. The tippet material says it has a break strength of 3lbs versus the 2lb on the Vanish as well. I am not doing anything differant with my thread leaders. I have done some mono leaders using Berkley before without any problem, but the two materials have a very differant feel to them.
I have just found some P-Line in the diameter I am looking for. It is a copolymer and flurocarbon, I believe this means it is copolymer coated with flurocarbon. Is this correct? How does this effect the characteristics of a flurocarbon leader if any? I am especially looking at how it may sink or float in comparison to a straight flurocarbon leader.
How big of a difference is it as far as sinking, Or does it sink much? Would you say it works well as a sink leader to either nymph or throw streamers into some deeper holes?
I want it that small so that I can make some in proper proportion for some smaller weighted rods. according to the BLF spreadsheet I need a smaller diameterfluorocarbon in order to make these leaders.
Brando;
You’re working from a spread sheet? Most of those are merely theory, some rocket scientist’s dream! If you want a fast, deep sinking furled leader for steelhead I’ll send you one but it did not come from a “Spread Sheet”!
Yes I am using the spread sheet to help make differen and size leaders according to line weight. I do want to make some leaders that will sink to go on 4-6 weight rods. Doses the thickness really matter that much? Blusky makes their leaders in concurrence with specific line weight. Does this matter much, or am I fishing for something making it more complicated?
A leader, any leader, should not exceed the break strength of the flyline. (A fly shop in Nashville replaced a broken 5 wt. line 3 times before finding out the idiot was swinging streamers with a 40# mono leader!)
I use the same formula duckster does. Butt section 40%, intermediante 30% and tippet 30%. I do one thing different though, I make my start and end loops 20% ending up with a 12/10/8/6 taper.
For my fluorocarbon leaders I use Berkley “Transition Gold” fluorocarbon. It does not come in 2# test but the 4# test makes a 12# test leaders that U feel is save for 4 - 6 wt. rods. And good enought for steelhead.
On my 7’ leaders I will add 5-6’ of fluorocarbon tippet.
So if I am reading this correctly than the leader shouldnt be to strong rather than how thick it is. I am using a peg calculator to configure my peg positioning, but little unsure as to what its taper is exactly. I have a book on how to furl a leader and it uses the 40, 30, 30 method for trout, and a 50, 30, 20 for bass and steelhead. I found this spreadsheet calculator to use to help place them. I am having a bit of a struggle trying to get the peg placement figured out for the taper you are speaking of. If I am correct though a 7 1/2 ft leader would have pegs positioned as follows 36’, 55’ (leg 1), 24’, 43’ (leg 2) tip seection at 79’. I believe this gets a 40, 30, 30 taper in the leader. If I was to make a longer leader I would want a laonger butt section an d more rapid taper at the end with maybe a 60, 20, 20 to help turn over the fly on short cast opportunities without spooling into a plile.
Here is the pattern and the peg layout. Very simple!
A steeper taper will turn over bigger fly’s. Make an extra round between pegs 1 & 2 and 5 & 4. (16/14/10/6) Shortening the leaders to 5 or 6’ will make even steeper. You should be able to turn over VW!!
Multiply the length of the leader you want to make by 1.10. 40% of that will be the distance between pegs 1 & 2. 30% will be the distance between pegs 5 & 4 and 30% 4 to 3.
I think I am using a differant furling layout. I have three posts, one at begining of each leg(butt) with the other at the tip. I then place four pegs two on each leg. I wrap my leader starting on post one to peg one, then peg two, post two, peg three, peg four, post three. From here I furl the leader and combine after finishing both legs and hang to unfurl. My jig is made of a 2x8 with metal posts where I put copper cuplings over them to wrap. I think if I could use your method by putting one peg in on both legs. This should cut down on the amount of material that is used to make my leader as well.
For the benefit of the incognoscenti, and others, all that a spreadsheet is, is an ‘automatic calculator’ that enables one to determine the proper peg spacing for the leader length, thread ‘size’, number of step-downs, layout formula and ‘slope’, etc., for the leader you want with just a click or two of a mouse. No need for inane manual calculations to provide what you seek. The are neither theoretical, nor is rocket science involved; just the tip of a finger and a mouse. Agreed, some are perhaps easier to use than others, but they are still the same in principle, and achieve the same end result.
