Ford, bring your fuel-sippers stateside!!!

FAOL Community Sound Off
1

Wondering if someone with more extensive knowledge of the reasoning behind this can help me out…

Why doesn’t Ford bring its small TDi motors back here to the US? Are they not emissions-compliant (seems like they would be)? Was enjoying myself today until I happened upon Ford’s UK site and discovered that both the international Focus and Fiesta are available with 1.4L & 1.6L TDi engines that achieve well in excess of 60 mpg combined city/highway (“combined cycle”).

Stop giving us the excuse that the technology is not yet production-worthy or that we need to pursue hybrid technology more aggressively. Criminy, our hybrids here in the US don’t come CLOSE to these diesel fuel engines!!! Even the gasoline-powered motors achieve better than 40 mpg combined!

http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/fiesta/co2_fie/co2_model_fie_diesel/-/-/-/-

Of course, maybe when our fuel prices approach 10 bucks a gallon (what’s that, a year or two off?) we might see these cars over here… rant over.

Marty

2

Now come on Marty - You know Ford is NOT going to give up their kickback from the gas companies.

For heavens sake now - get real !!!

3

are u willing to give up your gas guzzlers for a diesel rollerskate?? :smiley:

4

My guess is that it probably has to do with either safety issues or standards or emission ratings on that vehicle as it is produced now.

GM is in the same boat. I just read where the Yukon XL sales are down 39% over last year. This is the GM version of the Chevey Suburban. Big surprise there huh? The new Volt has been recently given the go ahead for production, but there is more to saying “let’s built it” than flipping a switch and it will probably be 2010 or after before it hits the street. The Volt is Chevy’s electric car.

Personally I would like a car that get’s 35 mpg, but for the cost of a new vehicle at $25K I can put a lot of gas in my car that gets 25 mpg. I’m just venting frustration because the oil speculation is effecting many people’s livelyhood. I believe it is the people buying oil futures that are driving up the price more than it is the actual cost of the oil itself. I don’t have any answers, but I sure am pissed off.

Rick

5

Use to have a 3 cylinder Geo Metro…made by Suzuki
52 mpg
They were so popular that even now there’s a commercial on TV thats whole premise to to poke fun at them
:rolleyes:

6

True, when the marriage between Detroit and the oil industry is over one day, we’ll all be better off for it. Then again I figure by then we’ll all be flying around with jet-packs, too.

FWIW we drive a MINI Cooper S and a Civic. So for all intents and purposes we’re already on “rollerskates” LOL Never had and never will have a gas guzzler - even with our 3 dogs. My parents believed in carting me and my 6 siblings around in a VW bus, and then a station wagons. So the blob SUVs out there just ain’t in my Yankee blood!

Marty

7

The new Fiesta is here:

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-ford-fiesta.htm

If this car runs a 125-140 horsepower engine coupled to a five speed manual not only should it exceed 40+ m.p.g. but could get you a serious speeding ticket too.

I currently drive a Ford ZX2 (Escort) :

I added the Bomz Racing Short Ram Intake, a Pace Setter catalytic converter back exhaust, MSD High Output Coil Pack, Massive Speed 8mm Superconductor Plug Wires and Autolite Iridium XP spark plugs. I also run Mobile 1 full synthetic 15,000 mile oil and change just the oil filter every 3,000 miles. Full oil change at 15,000 miles.

This car is quick, every bit as fast as my 1964 Mustang H.O. 289 4v, and gets 31-37 m.p.g. depending on how “hard” I drive her. Went from 130 horsepower to over 140 horsepower too.

In it’s original configuration the car was still very quick and they handle great. The modifications were done only because I wanted to do them except for the exhaust. I had a leaking exhaust pipe and figured if I had to spend over $300 for a o.e.m. exhaust I would put out the $260 for the better high performance exhaust. Let that engine breathe and boosted torque as well as an increase in m.p.g. The only thing I wish it had was the standard 5 speed transmission.

There are plenty of the Escort ZX2 and 3rd-4th generation Escorts out there that won’t break the bank, will save you on insurance and are miserly on gas. The ZX2 uses a bit more gas, normally 31-35 m.p.g. vs. 35-40 m.p.g. of the standard escort, but has enough power to get you both out of and into trouble. Oh, those mileage figures are in a 50/50 mix of city/highway driving.

Well, there are plenty of these cars out there to be had along with the Chevrolet Cavalier, Chevrolet Cobalt, Dodge Neon, Ford Focus, Toyota Priest, Mazda Protege and etc… Don’t let miles in excess of 100,000 put you off either. These are all based on Japanese or German chassis/drive-train. As long as they have been maintained you can get 200,000-300,000 easily out of them. I paid $5,500 for my ZX2 with 66,000 miles on it and I love it.

8

It’s just unbelievable how much “factual” info is expounded here regarding oil companies ( BIG oil), Detroit and other conspiracies. There’s only ONE solution, tax them into submission. That’ll surely solve the problem. Oh, and I almost forgot the windfall profit tax. Remove ALL incentive for them to operate gas stations and sell the stuff. Buy Citgo. Chavez can use the money to laugh at us and drill just off OUR shores where WE won’t drill for fear of harming the environment. To all who are in a daze as to what to do with these RISING (clue “rising”) oil prices , BUY OIL STOCKS instead of your Sage ZXXZLP10000 ( you probably have enough of them anyhow). Here’s another little recognized FACT, Oil is a commodity which is traded worldwide. It’s price is directly proportional to demand and an anticipation for that demand ( futures). The ONLY way oil prices will come down is if demand WORLDWIDE comes down and with China entering, with GIANT steps, into the global economy, THAT ain’t about to happen. Someone PLEASE tell sen. Dick Turbin to shut his political posturing face about the price og gasoline. There “AIN’T no” local solutions except for tapping our OWN reserves. ( But even THEN, why should oil companies sell THAT oil to us at a discount from the world price?)
End of rant. ( first ever)

Mark

9

I’d be careful about making a statement like “buy oil stocks.” You would blow your cerebral cortex if you knew how many oil companies are paying dividends not from their own profits, but from LOANS (clue “the money isn’t theirs”).

All I’m saying is that there are existing technologies that will blow the pants off our 40+ mpg Civic and 35+ mpg MINI (which, with a 15% supercharger reduction pulley, 2.5" exhaust, K&N “hot air” intake, NGK Iridium plugs and Kingsborne wires making - at last dyno test - nearly 190 hp), they’re just not accessible to us here in the US. Yet. Like I said before, maybe it will take $10/gallon gas to do it. It would be akin to paying less than $2.50 per gallon of gasoline again - getting 2-3 times more than the national average for fuel economy on $5/gallon diesel fuel (i.e. do the math).

Don’t forget to read through the guidelines for posting in this forum. The last thing we need is political barb-trading in what could be some sort of reasonable discussion. Thank you.

Marty

10

Pictured here is my DREAM TRUCK. It’s not available in the USA, this one was in Nicaragua. If I can ever find one in the USA, consider it sold. This one was likely made in Brazil.

It’s made by Land Rover, called the Defender, and sports a small but torquey 4-cyl diesel that sips fuel rather than guzzling it. Aluminum body work. Extreme heavy duty off-road everything, from suspension to drivetrain to brakes. Nice interior.

The USA version was mucked up in all the wrong places — big V8 petrol engine, SUV version only (no pickup), air conditioning (gimme a break…what a waste of fuel and weight), different lighting scheme, and such. It’s demise in the US was mostly due to the fact it could not be fitted with airbags to meet new US laws. First it was airbags…next it’ll be reverse gear backup video cameras and heads up displays and night vision and dozing driver alerts that are required to meet US standards.

Nissan also makes a similar truck, with sheet steel bodywork instead of aluminum. Also not available in the USA.

I consider it a crime that this truck never made it to the US in its original, great diesel mileage format. I don’t need the GUVMINT to protect me from a crash on the road…my slow, careful and defensive driving has done the trick for me so far (sorry if you had to pass me on the interstate!).

End of rant! DANBOB

11

This theme is going on in at least 3-4 posts here, what a conspiracy theory :roll:

The reason detroit was making gas guzzlers for america is because thats what americans wanted, small cars with good gas mileage were available for years, but instead people chose to still buy the big suburbans, etc that guzzled the gas.

Now that americans have shifted towards buying little cars detroit is getting killed by the foreign car manufactures, the demand is going to shift what detroit produces, detroit doesnt tell us what we have to buy, because there are foreign options out there.

12

A big reason you don’t see Ford’s European lineup here is cost. We’ve made our government into our nannys. We demand cars that can be hit by a freight train and still keep us alive. We’ve set very high emissions standards (some so high that they are cost prohibitive to try and reach).

The cost to get a car/engine/drive train combination 50 state certified for emissions and for federal safety standards is enormous. If you follow the auto industry, Ford does not have a lot of spare cash lying around to throw at this.

One other thing, the very same car that gets 40MPG in Europe, would most likely get far less (30-32MPG) here in the US due to the above mentioned emissions and safety regs. By the time side impact steel structures, a gazillion air bags, anti lock brakes, stability control, etc. etc. etc. are added just to make it legal to operate on US highways, several hundred extra pounds have been added to the vehicle. All of that weight costs fuel efficiency.

I’m not suggesting we go back and have unsafe cars. I’m just saying the reason we don’t see more of the European lineup here is it’s not as easy as putting them on a boat and selling them in Ohio.

Jeff

13

You’re not serious, are you? This is not a conspiracy theory. It’s no secret that both industries continue to pour millions of dollars into lobbying against increased fuel efficiency and emissions standards.

What an interesting statement, that America wanted gas-guzzlers. Gas was cheap so fuel consumption wasn’t an issue (at least that’s how I would interpret it). Then the fuel crisis of the early-to-mid '70s spawned an interest in buying more fuel-efficient automobiles. Had fuel been expensive to begin with, Americans would never have wanted gas-guzzlers.

Again, I continue to wonder why a 65-mpg diesel motor is not offered here in the US in a small Ford. Can anyone answer this question without going on a politically-tilted rant?

14

This makes productions of motors cheaper, and thus higher profits

It sounds like you are agreeing with my statement, that it was americans by way of supply/demand, that pushed detroit to make gas guzzling status symbols aka SUV’s over the last decade.

It probably doesnt meet emission standards.

15

Jeff-

My above comment was not in response to you. Must have been typing at the same time and you beat me!

Anyway, you’re definitely getting at something. Safety, probably not since the Ford Focus is already marketed here. Emissions, perhaps. But if you look at the CO2 emissions of the small Duratec diesels and the EPA standards, it’s not clear whether these are in the same units. If they are, then the Euro TDi motors are not even close to meeting US EPA standards. That could be the crux of the problem.

Marty

16

MTski-

Still highly doubtful that Americans “wanted” gas-guzzlers. More likely that it was cheap for auto makers to produce fuel-inefficient engines during a time when fuel was inexpensive. Definitely not easy to overcome the inherent fuel-inefficieny of internal combustion engines (a la energy lost as heat, etc).

After looking through EPA standards, I agree with you, appears that the TDi motors crank out wayyyy too much junk to get even 49-state certified, forget CARB in CA!

Marty

17

I very much agree with this statement, why not try to maximize profit if you are a detroit automaker.

If they didnt want them, why did american’s keep buying bigger and bigger SUV’s, why are people who never tow anything and never go offroad driving around in hummer’s, expeditions, suburbans, etc.

Americans very much wanted the status symbol of owning a big gas guzzler.

18

Quote from Popular Science
[QUOTE=]That is in part because American consumers, spoiled by cheap gas prices and hampered by enduring negative perceptions, have been down on diesels. In addition, diesel emissions have been specially targeted by U.S. regulators. Diesels spew high levels of nitrogen oxides, gases believed by some experts to be carcinogenic, as well as soot (or particulates), which contribute to the formation of smog. Whereas European pollution standards focus primarily on carbon dioxide emissions and so are achievable by diesel cars, new EPA regulations about to take effect in the United States aim specifically to reduce nitrogen oxides and particulates and will be more difficult for diesel manufacturers to meet.[/QUOTE]

See the full article here.
http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2002-01/diesel-revisited

Another interesting article.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/01/autos/diesels/

19

Status symbol I will give you, but there’s also the sentiment that it’s bigger, “safer,” gives one a more commanding vantage point on the road…

A 5-series Bimmer or E-class Merc is hardly a gas-guzzler by the above standards and is every bit the status symbol that an Escalade is…maybe more so.

20

Know what, I happen to agree with Marco. I used to work for a big independent oil company. If you are interested here is the list of oil companies that do and do not import from the Persian Gulf:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/summary2007.html

Do what you will with it. I choose to buy from companies that do not import from the Persian Gulf. I used to work for United Refining Co. and I can tell you they get all of their crude from North America (U.S./Canada). They are a good company and make an excellent product. They are regional to the North East and Ohio. You know them as Kwik Fill/Red Apple. If you choose to buy from a company that imports from the Persian gulf the don’t whine to me about the big, bad Saudi oil Barons, E.P.A. regs on vehicle emissions being too strict (a political statement) and not allowing the import of small diesels (funny how Volkswagen doesn’t have a problem getting their German diesels to meet our emissions requirements but everyone else does).

I don’t like paying these prices for gas any more than you do but I refuse to whine like a spoiled child about it. In my opinion that is exactly how most of we Americans are acting. I have been to other countries, seen how they lived and been so poor that all of my worldly possessions fit in a small portion of the Army Issue ruck sack! It sure made me thankful for the blessings that I had. Blessings like the buddies around me in the same conditions as me.

I have nothing at all against the pursuit of happiness so long as it is not done at the expense of others. I also want you to use your right to complain about things but when all we do is complain without action then we are just plain whining and sniveling. You are guaranteed the right to Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness but you are not guaranteed the right to happiness. If you don’t like something then do something about it. If you lack the courage to act then get out, America does not need you.

Count your blessings, have the courage to act and be thankful for every person you meet even if they make you mad. Nuff said, end of rant.