For Buddy Sanders

Fishing Warm water Forum
1

Buddy,

Got your bass flies and will begin to test them as soon as I can get out on the water. They look like they have a lot of potential especially the poppers and crickets. The only thing off the bat I can tell you about poppers down here in Florida is from my experience, LMB and bream like a popper with rubber legs rather than one without. Would you like me to add some rubber legs to your two foam poppers (not the wiggle bugs that also look really nice)? I have to admit that I haven’t had as good of luck as I hoped for using Dahlberg Divers or wiggle bugs in the past down here but will give these a go and see what happens. Poppers like the ones you sent should do the job without a doubt (I usually dress them fully with a hackle skirt and splayed hackle tail). The foam hoppers and crickets look promising and also might do well just by inspection. Really nice flies, Buddy. Might send you some of my proven ones (at least down here) and maybe one or two of my experimental ones sometime. Speck season (Spring bedding) has arrived here so guess what I will be going after right now? I assure you though, I will get your flies in the water (at different times and conditions) and let you know how they do .

Robert B. McCorquodale
Sebring, FL

“Flip a fly”

2

Robert,

They are yours to use as you see fit.

I don’t ever use rubber legs, but if you believe in them, go for it.

I’ll look forward to hearing how they do.

Good Luck!

Buddy

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3

Buddy, sorry to interupt . . . but can you enlighten us on your not using rubber legs. This isn’t meant as a criticism or anything like that at all. I’m just curious. Thanks. JGW

4

White,

To clarify, I never use rubber legs on poppers/sliders/divers tied for bass or panfish. There are other flies I tie where I DO use them, specifically a neat little foam hopper where they make excellent legs.

As to the rest:

First, I find them unnecessary. Fish like bass hit the ‘whole fly’, and it’s the action of the whole thing that attracts them. Head shape (which governs how the bait ‘moves’ when worked) and overall length are the prime ‘attractors’ here.

Second, they add unneeded weight. They can tangle with the other parts of the fly, of if too long, the tippet and even the hook.

Third, they added unneeded casting resistance.

fourth, they are a pain if you happen to fish them anywhere near small panfish (which is, unfortunatley, the same generl areas you’ll find the bass). Little gills, those 2-3 inchers, will be constantly grabbing he bait by the legs and pulling it about. Just annoying, at least to me.

After several years of ‘testing’ I found that the ones with the rubber caught fewer fish than those without. I build my baits to be ‘worked’ on the water, and I can’t find ANY reason why the addition of rubber legs would ‘help’ a bait catch fish.

I know, however, that others like them and do well with them. Confidence is a big part of the equation, and anything that ads to that is important.

For me, they are a waste of time, and I can’t justify the extra tying steps when I don’t believe it helps.

Good Luck!

Buddy

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5

Great answer, Buddy. I’ve tied and fished top waters both ways, and probably should pay closer scientific attention to the results. I’m usually out of my mind out there in my canoe, just pleased to be alive and fishing. JGW

6

Buddy,
Are you sure you weren’t an engineer, scientist, researcher or some such in another life?

7

Duckster,

I was a bit of a ‘science nerd’ in High School. Physics was my ‘thing’ and it carried over to the fishng (so many folks seem to think that natural laws of physics END at the edge of any hobby…). I’ve always liked working with my hands, and I picked up a bit of engineering in college just for fun…

I’ve always been fascinated by ‘process’, how things are built, why they work/move/function as they do, and exactly HOW to get things to work as I want them to.

THEN, I started building lures, progressed to tying flys, and eventually rod building…

Made TONS of mistakes, did quite a bit of erroneous research, and learned a very few things well.

NOW, I just want to catch some fish, tie flies the fish will eat, and build pretty rods that cast well.

Still love discussing the theories, though, although I HAVE given up all the ‘testing’ I used to do (folks in the neighborhood thought I was crazy “whats that guy doing tying that fishing line to the back of that truck? Is he loco???”).

Buddy

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8

So, Buddy. Just why were you tying a line to the back of a truck? This we’ve got the hear. After all, you started it! JGW

9

I’ve been following this thread with interest. I can’t agree more concerning the legs. I add legs to spider and hopper patterns ,but leave them off of the popper patterns. Hook gap on poppers is real important.I think the term I’m looking for is “hookability” I’ve had some poppers that looked really great only to be bounced around the surface with few hook ups. I have to admit that some of the patterns I tie are more for catching fisherman than catching fish.

10

White,

You REALLY don’t know how a rod loaded to the point of failure feels until it actually ‘fails’.

So, to see how it happens, we broke a few.

120 pound spiderwire and a moving truck will do it just about every time.

Here’s a bit of just plain fun to know kind of stuff that came up.

No fly reel we ‘tested’ had a drag strong enough to break a 6 wt. rod. Didn’t test many (we were playing with rod loads, not trying to test the reels), ruined two trying to lock down the drag with pliers…

Didn’t want to build the rods all the way only to break them, so we just taped the guides on with masking tape. ALL the rod blanks broke without even ONE guide coming loose.

Wear eye protection if you ever decide to do this test for yourself.

Less defects, rods all fail in the same place (just above the grip).

Kids LOVE to watch stuff like this.

So do housewives (not MY wife, however, SHE beleives I’m completely nuts for doing this stuff…Wise woman, my wife…), cops, stray dogs, and the Priest from the church accros the street.

Wear long sleave shirts if you are the guy who is holding the rod when it lets go (learned that right quick-them little slivers of blank sting pretty good…).

CAREFULLY explain the concept to the guy driving the truck BEFORE you begin this test…

Good Luck!

Buddy

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11

Buddy, you are the only person I have heard of who has conducted test to failure of rod blanks.

I find that most interesting and have a couple questions if you don’t mind.

Did you write up the results? If so, are they available on-line or by email?

What types of rod material did you test? Fiberglass, IM6, IM8, etc?

Did you attempt to break one by pointing the tip at the truck and applying the load to just the reel/butt?

Thanks! and good fishing…

Jim

12

Jim,

This ‘project’ was a ‘dual project’. It started as part of a product test/review for a marketing firm I was doing such things for. It was also written into an ‘article’ for a fishing related publication here in Arizona.

The ‘marketing’ stuff is what they call ‘proprietary’ (all the data and it’s distribution ‘belongs’ to the company). I did ‘have’ it, but I lost all of the hard data in a software failure a few years ago. I’m not ‘allowed’ to publish it, due to an agreement, but the company is since gone out o business, and if I still had it, I’d gladly share it here.

The article was done for a now defunct magazine, the Arizona Fishing News, for which I was a staff writer. It was deemed ‘impolitic’ to publish, so they didn’t. I ‘lost’ the article in the same crash that took the raw data…

For the first part, we ‘tested’ (got to destroy!) about a dozen blanks. These were furnished to us with no ‘identifying’ information on them, just a ‘number’ and a rod weigth rating.

For the ‘article’ we used a variety of well known comercially available blanks, Sage, Loomis, Shakespeare, Cortland, BPS, Cabelas. All were 6 wts. All were ‘midrange’ as price was concerned.

As far as "Did you attempt to break one by pointing the tip at the truck and applying the load to just the reel/butt? ".

No. We weren’t testing reel seats, which is what that would stress. Once the load is off the rod, the blank won’t break at all, the line or the reel or the seat, but not the blank.

I can tell you this, from our ‘tests’, that the ‘strongest’ rod, by far, was the Shakespeare ‘Ugly Stick’ fly blank. Nothing else was even close (not advocating these, unless pure strength is an issue for you).

Good Luck!

Buddy

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13

Thanks Buddy. That must have been a fun study to conduct. Most fellows I know just love to break things.

You said:
“No. We weren’t testing reel seats, which is what that would stress. Once the load is off the rod, the blank won’t break at all, the line or the reel or the seat, but not the blank.”

Amen.

Jim