Flyrodding vs. spin/baitcasters

Fishing Warm water Forum
41

Same here FG, but it’s not like I din’t start as a ‘baitcaster’ graduating (I thought) to ‘closed faced spinning’ then flyfishing but later got into open faced spinning. Never stopped flyfishing though. I think fly fishers can cover a lot of water really fast compared to having to reel up to cast.

I really enjoy sitting in watercraft sometimes, seeing how fast I can make casts to the rise in another direction, seeing if I can accurately strip line for the correct distance, depositing my fly in the ‘ring of the rise’ so to speak. I amaze even myself at times and I know that a bait or spin guy can’t get there a tenth as fast with equal line out. I no longer spin or bait…and won’t, just a preference of mine. Sure gotta lotta gear layin’ around. Was thinking about stripping out all the spin rods and making fly rods.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

42

Hi Fly Goddess;

There are a couple of forms of baitcasting that allow you very precise placement of a lure. They’re called “flipping” & “pitching”. Both involve a heavy 7’6" rod and are typically for distances leass than 20ft. There are tournament casters that can place a lure in a dixie cup repeatedly within 20ft. These techniques are used for fishing in heavy cover and typically require a very heavy jig, 3/4 ounce and higher and very heavy lines of 30lb test to as much as 100lb. test. Not very sporting but it does catch fish and that’s the name of the game for those tournament Bass fishing types. My biggest disapointment with baitcasting was that the strength of the equipment kinda took the fight and battle between fisherman and fish out of the picture.

I grew up fishing with ultralight spinning gear so converting to fly fishing to me was a natural progression. That plus seeing someone fly cast just looked like poetry. It took me a considerable amount of time to learn how to cast, I’ve had very little formal training, just a couple of those beginer demo classes. I’m thrilled to death if I go a whole outing without any windknots or a lapfull of tangled line! I’m just learning how to place a fly in some pretty tight places and succeeding more than I thought I would! That plus I learned how to haul late this summer, I was using a full flexing Garcia conlon 9ft glass rod with some bass bugs and it just sort of happened. Now I find myself hauling to one extent or another with any rod I pick up.

Let’s face it, fly fishing is just more challenging,rewarding and at the same time more relaxing than any other form of casting. If it wasn’t, places like this wouldn’t exist!

Wayneb

43

first of Wayned, can I say…JEALOUS! I bet that Garcia is nice.
I have watched bait casters and again I will say it is a challenge, and they are accurate as all get out FROM practice. But, I know three gentlemen, that can flip a fly out and curve around a bush (out of casters site) and hit the same spot time after time. It comes in real handy on clear woodsie rivers, but again allot of practice. Can Bait casters do that? I have no idea so it is not meant as a smart A comment, but more an interested question.

Many, many years ago, I too transfered from a light spinning out fit also, but in my young days, it was bamboo…and I wanted that spinning out fit soo bad…WHAT THE HECK WAS THE MATTER WITH ME! Argh LOL

44

Casting around corners, you say?
That is some seriously CONTROLLED aerialized line manipulation! :smiley:

Makes my grand feat of landing my fly somewhere in the water of an open pond directly in front of me seem rather trivial now… :stuck_out_tongue:

45

I hear ya. But again, practice makes perfect. But, then you have to keep doing it. Not something you can get down and push it aside and pull it out a couple of years later (not at all like a Bicycle LOL)
At the Lodge we had 8 lakes and every morning before the client was ready I could go play at the lakes. I did get quite good at the flick the fly out and twist. It went right around a bush to where the big boys were. But, try as hard as I could, I couldn’t teach the clients how to do it…too short of time.

And I know if I tried it right now I would definitely loose it in that bush.:shock:

46

But not impossible. The left-hand curve cast is done by casting side-arm and putting a little extra punch into the cast. With luck (and done right) it will curve left. The right hand curve cast is the opposite, an underpowered cast. Before you scoff, try them. S

47

FG,

Yup. Side arm casts use the energy in the unrolling loop to flick the fly in a semicircle at the end of the cast. Happens too in an overhead cast but the water stops the fly. As I remember, you have to open up the loop a little. Handy cast to get under a tag and put some upstream belly in the line for drift. Kinda like a side reach cast.

Bob

48

But, can you do it with a bait caster?:cool:

49

I avoid baitcasters if possible, but there’s been plenty of times when using spinning gear that I was able to execute multiple loops of progressively smaller diameters around tree branches at the end of an otherwise perfect cast. :D:D:D

50

Hi Fly Goddess;

Yeah the Garcia is sweet! I have several Garcias, I’m a fiberglass fly rod junkie! I have I think fourteen Garcias, two Phillipsons, three Scientific anglers system rods built by Fisher,and I think about ten Cortland fiberglass rods including a Leon Chandler Fisher built. It’s interesting I’ve probably spent as much on all those rods as you’d spend on one top of the line graphite.

Interesting about curving a line with a sidearm cast, never thought of doing that. I’ll have to play at that once I get back on the water. I was thrilled to be able to avoid standing dead trees by placing a fly between them. Another first this season. I mostly fish from a kayak and sidearm cast a lot. Another technique to learn, that’s another reason I prefer fly casting. I don’t think I’ll ever learn it all but it’s fun trying!!

Wayneb

51

As to the “curve” cast, it helps to overpower the cast. For a right handed person, it’s a lot easier to incline the rod to the right to curve the fly to the left. Not so easy to incline the rod to the left to curve the fly to the right, but it can be done, as Joni says, with practice.

Back to the original question - I catch a lot more fish with a fly rod than when I used spinning gear regularly. More important, to me, I KILL a lot fewer fish fly fishing than spin fishing. I know there is a hooking mortality factor for all kinds of fishing, but it is certainly lower when fly fishing. I only took my spinning rod out one time this year, caught one fish, and it died. On the other hand, I doubt that more than 2-3% of the fish I’ve caught fly fishing have died.

One other point - Joni raised a question what constitutes fly fishing - the fly, the rod, or whatever ?? So today I was using a fly rod to fish a streamer, and as I was ready to move on, I was bringing the fly back by reeling it in, as you would in spin fishing. And I caught a fish. So was I fly fishing or spin fishing ??

John

52

I have fished with spincast,spinning and baitcasters for 40 yrs and have only fly fished the past 5 yrs.I can see where the fly rod has alot of advantages over the others.I fish for panfish and crappie alot and catch more fish with the fly rod.I can cast flies with it that I would have to use a float or a sinker to cast with my other gear.Even the ultra light spinning rod.
I am addicted to fly fishing now but still love to Bass fish with the spinning and baitcasting gear.It takes alot of experience to fly fish and cast the rod, know which fly to use and where to use it and how to present it right but it also takes alot of experience when using spinning or baitcasting gear to know which crankbait or spinnerbait to use or which soft plastic bait to use and their presentation and a baitcasting reel is not the simplest thing to cast either.
I do catch more fish with the flyrod.I go to local ponds and I am catching fish when the other guys are not and this happens alot.
-Steve

53

This was a nice thread. I use to agree with the one comment above, but after reading some other ideas I have upsized quite a bit with my offerings on small water, and I’m constantly amazed at how SMALL a fish will take the bigger offerings. I figure show them a real meal, and downsize if conditions warrent it.

54

Give me a Fly Rod, and I’ll beat a Bass Pro with his spin gear & lures any day !!!

55

Don’t hold back, tell us how you really feel LOL

56

Kevin Van Dam would probably be available, especially if you put some money up. You can contact him through his website:

http://www.kevinvandam.com/

Be sure to film the contest and put it on Youtube! :wink:

57

Hi BobC;

I think in the pond I’m fishing, smaller flies that is sizes #4 or less seem to catch more fish. If it’s dark then the bigger flies do better on bass,probably cause they disturb more water and are easier for fish to locate.

I should have more time for fishing next year and can’t wait to see if size of fly differs from one local water body to another. I especially want to try the Mattowaman Creek, a tributary of the Potomac river and a big part of the tournament bass fishing in my area it even is used several times a year for national tournaments.

Wayneb

58

No. That’s putting a fly on a spinning rod. It is not fly fishing. It is blasphemy!

People who would do such a thing are also likely to pour catsup on a perfect sirloin steak, or put mustard on a ham sandwich. They would wear a green tie over a blue shirt, and possibly mix stripes with checks. Or put ice-cubes in a martini. Or (eegads…) serve red wine with fish (aaaauuuggghhhh!). It is a sense that all is not well with the world.

Fly Fishing involves the discipline of learning to use a fly rod, mending line, roll casting, and many other skills, in addition to the esoteric factors.

A fly is a lure, designed to be cast not by it’s own weight, but by the weight of the line. That’s fly-line.

If a fly is made so heavy it can be cast with an ultra-lite spinning rod, it has become a jig.

It’s possible that I may be something of a purist.

59

Mr.JML,

We may be neighbors.

While I now catch more bass on fly tackle than I did with conventional tackle, a lot of it has to do with location of the fish and time of year.

A summer evening on Arivaca (or Patagonia, Roosevelt, etc.), I’d agree with you.

December 15th on Pleasant, I’m pretty sure we’d be toast.

The large issue with ‘effective’ fly fishing for bass has to do with depth and fall speed.

Vertical fishing at depths of over twenty feet just doesn’t work well with a fly rod and line, but it’s easy and very, very effective with conventional tackle.

I’ll excell on a topwater bite, and if the bass are shallow and chasing, I can keep up with a crankbait tosser or spinnerbait guy. I’ll even do okay with a journeyman flipper if that’s the bite. But if it’s a deep bite, anything over fifteen feet, I can catch fish but I can’t get to them as quickly or as reliably as the guys can with a spinning or casting rod.

If the fish are ‘reacting’ to a fast vertical fall, you know, the half ounce jig dropping right by their face, we are handicapped since we can’t design a fly that will drop like that.

As far as taking on a ‘bass pro’. Those guys are good. Most of them, you hand them your fly rod and they’ll still kick your butt. Shaw Grigsby can cast as well as Lefty can, and guys like Roland and Bill are as good with a fly rod as most fly fishing guides are. Just because you only see them fishing with conventional tackle doesn’t mean they can’t use a fly rod…What they do know, better than the average guy, is where the bass will be on a given body of water. Bass aren’t all that hard to catch, but they can be hard to find.

Pm me, I’d like to get in touch.

Buddy

60

Not saying it can work for every one and I do it from a tube or a pontoon, But I deep nymph up to 30’. Not the Chan way of using a fast sinking line and letting the fly drop straight down from the tip of the rod and then a slow retrieve, but I use a FLOATING LINE, a slip indicator and 30’ of mono or fluorocarbon. Attach a fly on the end, then split shot about 6" to 8" up then a dropper fly off a tag about 3’ up. I can’t cast this, so it is more a lob, then kick back dragging the flies over the hole.
OR, there is a TYPE VII full sink line that has worked well for me on hot days along with Depth Charge line in 300 Grain.

The only time I have seen an advantage to spinning, is one lake I have gone to where the fish are suspended at 90+'. Well that just isn’t going to happen with a fly outfit. It might IF the water was dead calm and the line went straight down.:cool: