Gentlemen ( et al):
I have finally decided after almost 35years of flyfishing to “tie my own”. The problem is that in all those years I have NEVER sat behind a vise and tied a fly. I have ,however,been accused of tying one on a few times in those years. My dilemna is a follows: I ordered and received an Orvis Premium fly tying kit at $249.00 and am very dissapointed at the quality of the contents. There are things in there that I will probably never use. The vise is of very poor quality.I am sending the entire parcel back to Orvis. I have a degree in " ain’t no free lunch" and I didn’t expect much for this price but I now think I should have perhaps opted for a non kit option. My question to you flytyers is: Are there “better” kits out there or should I depend on individual components and good advice to build and supply my tying bench?
Thanks in advance
I’d find a fly shop close if ther isn’t one then head online. Hook and hackle Janns Net Craft,Someplace like this. Before I found this home I bought a tying kit from Galyns which is now dicks I paied 99 bucks for a kit put out by Universal Vise company. It had good stuff but there are a few things I still have after 6 yrs at tying. I keep them just in case. But I up graded vises to a Griffen vise mine is the spider it cost 68 bucks at Janns. And have bought many differnt tools over the years but they have tool kits you can get to get you started and when you get use to everything you could move up to better tools. Most would say start with Al’s Beginners section on here. Or get a good book and jump in. And as for materail buy as you go cause you will be spending tons on everything you will need. On way I cut down on prices is I tie with dry fly hooks and streamer hooks for 95% of all my flies and have never had a problem. As I can’t see spending a bunh of money on 30 differnt types of hooks when a few will do. I buy regular aberrden hooks to tie blue gill and bass flies with and you can get them from walmart or Meijers. Just buy a little at a time and don’t beafraid to ask questions if you need any help e-mail me and I’ll try and point you in the right direction. Later Matt
To each there own !
definitely go with individual materials and good tools and a decent vice- a danvise is a good option. work on one or two flies at a time to get the basics down, then work on more complex flies. only buy for the flies that you will tie, then as you tie more flies, you will have most of the materials.
Well, my opinion (I’m no expert) is this. Get a vice you like, play with a few and see what trips your trigger. Then get a quality set of tools. Dr Slick makes a nice set for around $40. It’s going to be much more cost effective to get a few things to tie a pattern or 2 and progress from there. The problem with most of those tying kits are the materials, for one, are subpar and alot of that stuff will never get used. It’s not just the Orvis kit, I think all the starter kits are like that.
For that kind of money, you should be able to get a decent rotary vise like a Danvise, Anvil Apex or Tierra Del Fuego. A set of tools and still have a hundred dollars or so left for some various materials. Definitely enough to get you going.
Gentlemen:
I just knew I’d get some answers here and I assure you they are very much appreciated. I attended the Midwest Fly Fishing show here in my area last weekend and saw a vise ( Nor-Vise) that looked like it can do everything. Has anybody here ever heard of this product?
Thanks in advance.
PS. Hey JC, it’s amazing to me that you can recall articles on varied subjects ( such as mine) so frequently. So what’s your secret?
I’d rather be in Wyoming!
They are nice for some things… They seem to be more at home for speed, almost more of a production vise. I know a few people that tie on them and really like them. I’ve tried a little bit but they almost seem cumbersome to me. The jaws are big and flat on the end,and it just seems weird to me. The people that tie on them swear by them though.
Marco;
Ronn Lucas is a source for the NOR-VISE and a sponsor on this website. And one of the people that helped me get started. Ronn has a wealth of knowledge and wants you to be happy. While I did not buy the vise he sells, I have bought things from him. His service is second to none.
Contact him below.
Ronn Lucas Sr.
13535 SE Beech
Milwaukie, OR 97267
USA
Phone: 503-654-0466
Email: rlucas@cybcon.com
Good luck in your search, I Would build my own like the articles JC offered. But choose your vise after you have set in front of it… I have 4 vises because I did not have a place near me to do that.
Harold
I would also read all the fly tying tips before i went out and bought materials. You will be surprised what you can get for next to nothing… Check out sponsor pages, I buy as much as I can from them…
I think one of the best fly tying vises for the money is the Danvise (available from BT’s Fly Fishing Products [url=http://flyanglersonline.com/about/bts/:5a525]http://flyanglersonline.com/about/bts/[/url:5a525] ), sponsor on FAOL.
Al & Gretchen carry most of the stuff you need to get started, and give great service. You will get the most value for the money spent if you use them.
~Parnelli
I caught the bug by using a kit from Cabella’s several years ago. This was one of their traveler kits, tools and vice anly in a small folding wood box. Cost about $35.00. I then picke out a few easy patterns that all required similar materials. After I deciced that it was a hobby that i thought I would be interested in, I made the larger commitment to some better equipment. I think that this was the best approach for me. I had time to get as much info on vices, techniques, and maerials from the shop and still enjoy the hobby as I discovered it.
p.s. Best of all, I gave the kit to a friend of mine who was interested in learning how to tie, and his 13 year old son has since commandeered it from him.
For a fly tying kit, I started with a kit came from Caballe’s for about $60. The vise was not a rotary but was adequate for basic fly tying. The tools I still use since they where of a higher quality. I used this vise for about two years and found out that I really enjoy tying flies as well as fishing them. After a couple fish-in’s that I went too and watched what other people used for vises to learn their pros and cons of the vises. I settle for Ron Lucas Nor-vise and been very happy with it. Along with it I did get the retractable bobbins. There was a good learning curve on how to use the Nor-vise, and once I got over that, my fly quality and quanity went up exponentally. There is alot of vises out there to try, join a local fly fishing club and watch different people tie and ask questions. You will be more satisfied with the outcome.
Good luck;
REW
I had in the past been in the “no tying kit camp”, but recently had my mind changed. Cabelas is offering a kit that has all materials and a book to tie 10 different popular patterns along with tools. You can get it with their master vise for about $60. This is a focused kit that will give you a nice opportunity to have a text to teach basic skills as well as how to tie 10 productive patterns. The worst thing that could happen is decide that you tie a few and decide that it stinks and quit. Out $60 bucks. The best thing is that you’ll have 100 personally tied flies and tools and a nice variety of material left over. If you then decide that it’s you bag, then you can upgrade scissors and maybe eventually the vise and bobbins. With respect to thers opinions, getting a vise that does anything than hold a hook well to start with is nuts. First, figure out if you want to stick with tying. You could mix in a class and not be out much more than $100 total if you walk away. If your hooked, then you have $ left over from that Orvis kit (which I got as a gift 5 years ago) and can upgrade scissors, maybe vise and add some materials to your outfit.
I, along with others here, heartily recommend the Danvise. It is made by Danica and sold by Orvis. You’ll find it in the Orvis catalog listed as a “rotary vise.” I got one of these back in '96 and have never need anything else. I’ve even converted a couple of Renzetti snobs. :-)It travels well (you can’t break this thing) and is perfect for all levels of tying.
I introduced Mike Martinek to this vise and he used it for years in his videos. By the way, mine is one of the original Danica branded vises, but they’ve not changed a whit save the name embosed on the base.
Welcome to the dark side.
Frank Reid
Marco Don’t expect to use all the material you get. Remember that 90% of this sport, to include fly tying, is the accumulation of stuff.
Gentlemen:
A BIG THANK YOU for all your help. I AM a bit torn on which way to go but at least I have information supporting all choices.Thanks again . See y’all at a fish-in.
Mark
I’d rather be in Wyoming!
My advice would be to steer clear of the kit option. Start out with a nice vise like a [url=http://www.dhthompson.com/vises/modela.htm:d1f3a]Thompson Model A[/url:d1f3a] and some basic tools. You can always add anything you need later on. You need some tying experience before you will know what tools are good to have and what tools are just gimmicks.
Here are what I would consider to be a basic set of tools:
Scissors
Hackle Pliers (Herb Howard style)
Whip Finisher (Matarelli)
Thread Bobbin
Bodkin
Hair Stacker
You can tie an awfull lot of flies with just these tools. The whip finisher is optional. Many people use them, many do not. If you are going to use one, make it a Matarelli. It is a great design and a pleasure to use. I also recommend the Materelli bobbin.
You can make a bodkin by just sticking a sewing needle in a wine cork. This will work fine. You can always order a real one later and you will not have wasted any money.
I have never used any of the pricey fly tying scissors. I have used just basic fly tying scissors that cost well under $10 and they work fine for me. I take care of them though by only using them to cut thread and other soft materials. I keep another old pair of scissors for cutting things like wire, lead, etc.
I would recommend starting out with some streamers such as Mickey Finns, Black-Nose Dace, and Woolly Buggers.
If you are looking for a book, “The Complete Book of Fly Tying” by Eric Leiser is a good one. I’m sure there are lots of good videos out there also.
Just buy the materials that you need to tie your first two or three patterns.
[This message has been edited by gadabout (edited 10 February 2005).]
Don’t throw anything out. I’m on my fourth vise and have finally found one I like. Personally the things that are important to me may not be important for you. Tight hook hold,rotary, bobbin cradle. I also like adjusting screws instead of a cam. My old vises are great for when I teach the fly fishing merit badge.I let the kids take home an old vise and all the materials for a dozen flies in a zip lock bag. I may not get them back for a month,but trial and error is still the best teacher.
Marco;
If you will email me your address I’ll send you a copy of my instructors tool list, how-to instructions and basic materials with receipes for beginning tying.
Check out the Archives on FAOL for the patterns you would like to try (The best step by step visuals I’ve seen!). Make a list!! Then order from someone like Hook & Hackle.
The Materilli Whip Finisher takes some practice to master but you get nice tight tie offs without using cement.
I’d go with at least grade 2 1/2 capes for starters. You get more small hackles for the 18 to 24’s
A lot of supplies are available in craft shops or sewing shops, cheaper too.
There’s a post in Fly Tying about this Addiction for which there is no cure!!
Cactus
Marco,
Here is my 2 cents worth on this subject. You have been given many suggestions and maybe too many and this can be confusing. My advise, based on “been there, done that”, is to get a vise and a set of tools. I do not recommend the kits. When companys put out the kits they do not know if the buyer is going to tie flies for trout, warm water fish or saltwater fish and so they put a little material to tie for all of the above. This is why you end up with material you do not need or want. If you would just purchase a vise and hand tools and then do not try to tie several different flies. If you only tie 1 or 2 of each pattern, you will not learn the proper techniques to improve on your tying skills. If you plan to tie for trout, you could pick a pattern such as the PT nymph, Hare’s Ear or Wooly Bugger and they all will catch trout. Go to your local fly store or HookHack on the web and order a tying kit called, “Fly In A Box”. These are kits that give you enough material to tie 1 dozen of a particular fly plus a tied fly for a sample. When you learn to tie, you should tie just one pattern at a time and a dozen of them will give you an opportunity to work out any mistakes and each one you tie will be better than the last one. When you finish, you will have a dozen flies and no left over material. Pick another pattern do the same all over again. Don’t try to tie everything you see. This just makes the learning experience frustrating and you may quit. Haste makes waste. Go one step at a time. After several “Fly In A Box” ties you will have the technique down pretty well and will have a better knowledge on what material you wish to purchase and try to tie what your main fishing hole fish like. The above is just my opinion and I strongly urge you to take your time and try on each fly to improve on each step. You will NEVER be completely satisfied with your tying skills and that’s what makes fly tying fun. Oh, by the way, it is addictive and no cure!
Warren
[url=http://abeatty.clicksitebuilder.com/195123_Rotary_Tying_Station.html:e93b4]http://abeatty.clicksitebuilder.com/195123_Rotary_Tying_Station.html[/url:e93b4]
This would be a good solution to the vice and tools part of the equation. The oasis oak workbench/toolholder is quite handy. The Dan vice is a joy to tie on. Al has a video that shows many great uses of the Rotary feature. I highly recommend it for somebody just starting to tie.
Chuck Hitt
I just started tying myself about a month ago. I bought a kit at Bass Pro Shops for 40 bucks. If I could do it again I would not buy the kit and instead buy everything separately. Since then I have bought better versions of every tool in the kit, the first being ceramic bobbins.
I also suggest the “Fly in the box” concept. I suggest Bob Henley’s Tie-A-Fly.
Also the lessons on this website have been the better than the two books I purchased.