I am having a problem gettng my fly to lay down on the water. When casting a #24 dry on 7x tippet I find that the fly will at times set down with the curve down and the eye straight up. I can see the loop of tippet off the eye of the hook. A slight tug and it lays flat. I am wondering why this is happening and have a few thoughts. Would like your opinion.
The leader has some curls in it and the weight of the fly is not enough to keep the tippet from curling after the force of the cast ends.
Solution: replace tippet, cast lower to the water.
2.I use too much force on the cast and do not end it smoothly, making it like a pile cast
Solution: Lower rod at end of cast or let some line slip out to reduce force at end of cast.
Use a heavier fly
Solution: fagettaboutit. In the last few weeks it has been very successful on the other casts and I have caught up to 20" browns and rainbows with this fly.
What kind of fly are you casting? Could you add a tail to the fly? That would keep it from landing tail down. Also try cliping the hackel on the under side of your fly so that there is a flat spot. The fly should land flat where the hackel is shorter… More likely, it sounds like the hackel you are using on your fly might be too long.
you could be applying too much force on your presentation cast, causing the weight of the fly to “flip” at the end of the line, due to inertia. if this is the case, than you would see the leader/tippet “hump” upwards as the fly “flips” downwards.
simple solution: relax your presentation. ive had this problem in many casting scenarios where either wind, distance, or tight presentation zones have caused me to “force” the cast forward. try to keep just a little extra line off the reel during your cast. that will help to slow the line, instead of the line speeding forward and “snapping” to a stop.
Everyone dies. Only the lucky ever truly Live. Take your time.
7Star,
It is a griffith’s Gnat. As it is a 24 is large. I would probably do better with a 28, but adding a tail is not possible as I can’t tie anything nearly that small and commerically there is none with a tail.
Rich,
I can put one of those flies on my line with great trouble only. The two knots take about 30 seconds to tie and threading the tippet through the eye of the hook about 5 minutes. Hope I don’t need to move to tri-focals.
Chris,
I think the too much force is part of the problem. I am trying to do a hook cast to get a longer drift and would probably do better with a gentle reach cast.
The saving grace is that when I have to tug to get the fly to lay down it sinks into the film and then it becomes deadly, well not deadly but effective (its a C&R area so no deadly allowed) LOL
7star’s right. Clip the hackle flush at the bottom with the bend of the hook or even further up toward the body to get the fly to land level. -RobJ
“The years of searching in the dark for the truth that one feels but cannot express, the intense desire and the alternations of confidence and misgivings until one breaks through the clarity and understanding are known only to him who has himself experienced them” - Albert Einstein
Jed,
Just for my own curiosity, how heavy a rod and line are you using? How far are you trying to cast? And, why, if its a griffith’s gnat, #24, are you worried if it doesn’t sit “upright”?
Betty
And I would add if you are having success why would you want to change? Even if it lands “flat” it seems the most success you have is getting it in the film has good benefits, so I would even “tug” it if it was flat.
Otherwise I understand your question of wanting to correct a flaw in your cast if there is one. I would think with a fly that small a perfect cast would not always result in a perfect presentation.
Drew
A bum-legged old man and a drunk. That’s all you got?
That’s WHAT I got.
I use a 4wt. with a 12 ft. 7x leader and 7x tippet. These casts are between 30’ and 60’. Distance is not the issue (I don’t think). It matters with a Griffiths Gnat because a fly sitting arse down in the water is not the same profile as when it lays on its belly. (Hook down, Eye to the sky is not okay. Rolled 180 degrees is not so bad but this is different).
I also find this happens with other “traditional” dry flies so I thought I’d ask the question.
Why do I care. Well, its the aesthetic of the cast and the percentage of hooks ups. I want every cast to be right. For me, alot of the fun is in the presentation. If I were fishing just to catch I’d use a large net or dynamite.
If my casts were better, when I want it to sink into the film I can do it with a more gentle tug on the line.
I think the real issue is my casting and everything else is a work around to compensate for what I cannot do properly. My stop is too hard and the force pulls everything back as well as my loops not being open enough. Too many 2/0 Clousers in my recent history have made my casting tiny dry flies sloppy. I think I’ll take some time on vaction and just practice casting. It is something I rarely do, but this coming week should allow me the time and place. I’m taking a week on a lake that is full of Lake Trout (not primarily a fishing vacation) and I don’t think they will be anywhere near the #24 Griffith’s Gnats I cast from dockside.
i use 7X for flies all the way down to #32. never had a problem from my 3 wt. i have experienced what i “imagine” is the same situation, and i corrected the problem by doing 2 things: 1)less aggression in the forward cast and 2)line speed control.
IMO–anything less than 7X is an affectation…purely for looks. youre mileage may vary.
Jed,
It used to bother me too but now I’m of the same persuasion as Rich Ward. Be sure your leader leaves the fly parallel to the hook shank. Tighten the knot well and inspect by holding the fly by the leader. If you are using a clinch knot, change to a turle knot and vise versa. Don’t be afraid to re tye your knot if it leaves the shank at an angle. You will have less trouble if you keep your tippets small…7x or 8x but 6x if you’re getting broken off too much for the 24s and smaller.This should take care of it at least some of the time!
What knot are you using. A clinch knot, with 7x tippet tied tight to such a small fly can have the affect you are describing. Perhaps a duncan look knot will help the fly flutter and land flat. Just an idea, cause I have yet to use a fly much smaller than #18!
I am using a 24 Griffith’s Gnat because I can’t get a 28. On this water the small flies get the big fish. Go to a #20 and you’ll catch almost nothing.
I use a modified Turtle’s knot, with the loop tightening back on the line, not the hook shank.
Tomorrow or Thursday I will try using 8x and using a knot that leaves a loop, rather than tying tight to the hook. Then I will work on a less agressive cast and letting the line feed out at the end of the cast so it rest gently on the water. I’ll report back. Thanks all for your advice.
Jed,
Usually, when I fish with a #22-#28 fly, I use a 2#, or 3# rod, 7X tippet, and leader, and have only rarely lost a fish. (Yes, I catch very large fish with the smallest of flies and equipment). I think a heavier rod overpowers the small fly in placement. Be gentle. Soften up the casting stroke. Is the knot set low in the eye, so that it’s pulling the front end up? Are the flies overhackled? Do you want some #28 hooks? I’ll send you some! I love tying flies that small…and, better yet, fishing them!
Betty