I have several questions about fluorocarbon tippet materials:
Several companies (Orvis, Seguar, Rio) are now selling premium fluorocarbon tippet materials at a price somewhat higher than their original fluoro tippet. What is the difference between the original fluro and the new fluoro? is it worth buying the premium fluoro?
Given the high price of fluorocarbon tippet material, I have wondered if one can buy fluorocarbon spinning line in bulk to use as tippet? Does anyone do this? What brands have you used?
Because of its higher specific gravity, I have avoided using fluorocarbon when fishing dry flies, fearing that the tippet might drag the dry fly down. Is this misguided?
First off I will say I ALWAYS fish fluorocarbon. I have several cases where I caught fish when others using mono did not. Maybe a confidence factor, but, it works for me.
I also fish flies down to a #32…and yes with fluoro. The tippet sinks slightly which is what I like. It does NOT pull the tiny micro dry down.
Now, I also guide so tippet is way to costy. I use regular 100% pure Fluorocarbon P-Line. In sizes of 2 lb to 10 lb. But it is bigger diameter pound for pound than tippet, so I will buy 6X in tippet material for the micro flies. All other flies I will use the P-Line and it works just fine.
Vanish is garbage to me, I lost way too many fish this year to that stuff. I could think it a bad batch because fluorocarbon is not suppose to have a shelf life, but htis was 4 lb , then 6 lb, then 8 lb, then 10…they all BROKE and not at the knot. I switched to P-Line and no more lost fish.
Use Seguar occasionally, but, it doesn’t seem as strong a P-Line either.
and I use 0X to 7X. Yes is it expensive but it lasts a long time, after all, it is tippet material, not leader, so I only use 12 to 18 inches at a time and you get 90 feet of it, that is 1,080 inches of tippet.
I take mostly guided trips on the rivers of Washington and mainly Montana. All the guides I fish with use fluorocarbon tippet and most of them use the Rio brand. Dry fly or nymph it doesn’t matter. I use fluorocarbon all the time.
Tippet material is very soft for a reason, while lines are a stiffer material. So, I use tippet material and not line material.
As for sinking dry flies, don’t worry about it. Heck, if you use mono, once it has been in the water it starts to get dirty and the dirt will sink it as well so use the fluorocarbon. It increases your chances of getting a hit, that is why the guides use it, they want their clients to get as many hits as possible. Makes for happier memories.
Always use Fluoro tippet material. I used to use Fluoro leaders and tippet. I stopped that practice and went standard to fluoro. I’ve not had any problems with this set up. The leaders in Fluoro were just so darn expensive that I just couldn’t justify it. I’ve not noticed any appreciable difference in my fishing success using standard leaders with fluro tippet material.
I’ve heard the top water vs. nymphing discussion on fluoro. The manager of my local fly shop will not use fluoro for dry fly fishing. I do and have no issues. Does it affect my success rate… maybe, but I do alright. I’m certainly not going to carry around even more tippet than I do now.
I always use fluoro specifically designed for fly fishing. I don’t use non fly fishing fluoro spinning line.
Hello:
Like others I only use fluoro for tippet. I tie my leaders out of mono and use fluoro tippet and this works great. I mostly fish lakes with subsurface flies and fluoro is the only way to go for midging and fishing leech patterns under a bobber. I always out fish friends who use mono and think is too expensive. I use Rio and Air flo and recently bought some Maxima fluoro and have had good results with it. The Maxima is about $10 a spool. I really like the way fluoro sinks and its small diameter is great for underwater flies. If you have already spent hundreds of dollars for a rod, reel, line, etc. what is another $50 or more for tippet that will give you a greater chance a catching more fish. When fishing is really good I will switch to a mono tippet, to compare it with the fluoro and I will always get more hits and takes with a fluoro tippet.
Thanks for the advice. By the way, I am the proud owner of a rod that you built–a 9 ft 4 wt Z-Axis that I picked up on this Board. It is now my favorite rod. You do good work.
Tom:
Hello. Did you get that rod from Darrin? Is that the 4 wt. with the white guide wraps and TiCh single foot guides. If so, that rod came out great. Glad you like it the Z Axis are great rods. Happy Thanksgiving.
The only two names I really trust in mono and flurocarbon are first Stren and second Berkley Trilene though I agree woth FG that Vanish is not so good.
Looked at the link you provided. Thanks. Berkley Trilene Fluoro : 4 LB test - Diameter = .007 = 4X. Not good. (for me), RIO 4X mono = 6.4 LBS, Seaguar 4X Fluoro = 7.0 LBS. Much better choices. (for me). Incorporating this Trilene 4X material into a 5 or 6X leader with a greater breaking strength would cause your leader to break back at the 4X section. As you know, when building leaders, ideally, you like the leader to be able to turn over the fly, so the first thing I look at is the diameter of the material and the stiffness. Then I consider the breaking strength of the weakest link. All things being relatively even, you would expect your leader to break at the fly, not half way up the leader. Basically, what I am getting at is that this Berkley stuff is too weak per its diameter. If I’ve missed something here, please let me know. I may be assuming too much! Won’t be the first/last time I’m sure! LOL!!!
Dave,
Try the Stren products. You will get much better results from them. IMHO regardless of the manufacturer the spools of tippet material I used to buy is way overpriced.
A couple things you have to consider with the Flouro tippet. First some manufactuers list the knot breaking stregnth such as Climax and the new 98 tippet while other manufactuers list sheer strength. Secondly not all 3X,4X …mic out the same. Sometimes tippet that has a high pound rating are a little thicker than those that have a lower rating.
I love the Seaguar tippet but have found that the Rio gets more takes while fishing in the upper zone and surface, for whatever reason. I’m a believer of using heavy tippet. I use 3X 95% of the time and more often than not go to 2X or 1X than going smaller. But to put this into context the Madison is now my homewater. It is a pretty “heavy” water and hook a fat 18 inch or larger trout you run a good chance of a break off with anything less than 3X. That being said I still use 3X on the creeks or smaller rivers as well. The fish don’t seem to mind and I can bring them in fairly quick without having to stress them too much. I get more takes on 3X flouro than 3X mono. Very unscientific, it’s just what I have found works for me.
Hope this helps,
Jim
I carry Rio (mono) for 3,4,5 & 6X tippets. Enrico Puglisi (mono) in 6,7, & 8X tippet material. I seldom use anything larger than 3X, even on #2 streamers. We’re talking trout fishing. The only thing I’ve HAD to use 1X/0X on are #12 dry fly spider patterns that consist of hackle an inch or more in diameter when wrapped around the hook. Any thing less and these spiders will twist your leader into a birds nest that only the Ospreys would admire! LOL!!! BTW, when I fish these spiders, the fly and the leader are greased, so you can skitter these big fluff balls across the surface. Very effective! Currently I build 7 to 9ft. tapered leaders for streamer fishing, but am considering using level leaders of 3X fluorocarbon. Just not sure if tapered leaders are necessary for streamers. I do like that fluoro is supposed to be more abrasion resistant. As you pointed out Jim, not all .008 (3X) material is actually .008, which can mess with your leader formula. Instead of looking like a tapered bull whip, it will look like a Python that swallowed a pig!(a little dramatic, but you get the picture!) I have to ask: What do you do when the fish are sipping on stuff that is #24 to #32? My answer is 6,7,8 or 9X. This is the stuff that works for me in the type of fishing I encounter. As a wise man/women? once said - YMMV…
Hi Dave,
I get more than a few “your kidding” looks when I recommend or say that I use 3x tippet. I also get a lot of “I should have listened to you about the 3x tippet” when they loose the pig of the season. On the other hand I also hear “Broke the _____ 3x like it was nothing” a few times too. LOL
For smaller flies as a rule of thumb: as big a tippet I can get through the eye, usually 4X or 5X . Obviously there is a point of diminishing return or uselessness with tiny flies. As a general rule,with the fishing encountered on the Madison, I don’t see much small stuff and I can’t really imagine landing even a 16 inch trout on 7X or 8X. Not to say that it can’t be done or hasn’t been done it just seems pointless when you consider the well being of the trout, unless of course you are going to harvest it.
Again, very unscientific, it’s just what I have found works for me.
Jim
I am with you on that, those Montana trout can really grow big and fight well. I tend to use more 3X than anything else on Montana rivers, sometimes down to 4X and sometimes up to 2X. If I am nymphing, same weight flourocarbon tippet to the first nymph then I drop one size for the dropper nymph.
On pocket waters in small streams I use 5X and sometimes 6X, but then I am going for smaller trout.
I use mono unless I am nymphing or I am fishing to very spooky trout. The reason is that if I break off mono, it will disintegrate over the years due to UV and weathering. Fluoro does not and will be around for literally hundreds of years. Plus mono is much cheaper.
Fluoro is an advantage when fishing to spooky fish with dries. A floating mono tippet has a different index of refraction than the water. It also depresses the meniscus slightly. This cause specular reflection and refraction. These bright spots can be seen as the fish look up at the floating mono and they can also be seen on the bottom of the stream in slow moving waters. With sunken fluoro tippet this does not occur.
Yes. That being said, because flouro seems to be a bit stiffer, I usually use some sort of loop knot to the fly when fishing flouro, thus allowing the fly more natural movement.