I don’t believe that vanish nor maxima are the best by test. If I go Fluoro, I buy Rio or Seagar. You can get the Seagar in larger spools to save a little money. I have also had pretty good success using 6# Airflo fluoro and that comes with alot more on the spool than the other big name leaders.
Both Bill Nash (USA) and Geoff Wilson (AU) are knot experts and these fellows have done a lot of testing of different brands and different knots. Both have books and DV Ds with a wealth of data in them. These guys get down to brass tacks on this stuff. I wish there was one place to go for compiled, up-to-date data on brand name leader strength and the best knots to use on them.
Anyway, I use mostly Fluoro and when I use nylon mono, it is Berkely Big Game or P-Line…
RL
[This message has been edited by flymaker2 (edited 05 February 2006).]
Remember that Flourocarbon floats, so it’s not very good for dry fly fishing.
Ken
I have been trying to figure out what you are saying. You mean flouro sinks, right? Anyway, I do use flouro 6X on my size 26-32 dries and it works fine, infact it works great.
My experiments with fluoro have been good. I can’t complain about knot strength or any issues with joining mono with fluoro. I’m not using any special knots either. I only use it for tippets since it just doesn’t seem necessary or worth it to me, especially at $12+ for 25-30 yards.
My two favorites are Rio Fluoroflex Plus and Varivas. These two brands are the strongest by diameter of all the brands I’ve tried. The 7x in Rio or Varivas is nothing short of amazing with stated breaking strengths of 2.5 and 2.2 lbs respectively. I’ve caught some really nice fish on the 7X and I felt like I was fishing 3X. While I hate to knock another brand, I have to say that the Umpqua 7X fluoro I tried was so bad I gave it away and the guy I gave it to THREW it away. It broke at the knots often and neither of us trusted it for anything but hanging lightChristmas ornaments.
One thing I really like about the Varivas is that it gets sort of dull or milky colored after use so it doesn’t have that new mono/fluoro shine; the Rio doesn’t seem to get as dull. I’ve noticed the same thing with Berkley Vanish which I use on my baitcasting reels, (I love the stuff BTW).
I did consider using Vanish or other brands of fluoro for my tippets but it’s all about diameter to me. The smallest size Vanish is 2lb test with a diameter of .006 which is about the same as 5X. Rio or Varivas all mike out to .004 for 2+lb test line. A big difference when you need fine tippets for small flies.
I wish I could find an alternative to the high price of fly fishing fluoro. It makes me nuts when I can fill my baitcasters TWICE with Vanish for half the price of one spool of Rio at 1/3 the length.
bamboozle, I am assuming that you are talking about on a floating line. In my opinion, anyone that uses tapered leaders on sinking lines are waisting money. Regular fishing line (specially Vanish) is all you need.
I agree that Varivas is some of the best, but, do they even make it anymore? I like the Orvis Superstrong Flouro. but I also use Frogs Hair. Using a surgeon’s loop on all my flies, allowes me to use 6X on those 28-32’s. Don’t use 7X, lost too many fish. I also tie my own leaders and cap them off with flouro (12")
Yes I am talking about a leader for a floating fly. At the present time I don’t use fluoro for my sinking leaders which are tapered BTW but short, sweet, and simple.
Varivas tippet material IS still available. I recently picked up several spools in their slick new packaging. If it is unavailable it’s a recent development, as in the last 4 months.
I use the 7X all the time with no issues and smaller when I feel lucky .
[This message has been edited by Bamboozle (edited 06 February 2006).]
No-one’s mentioned it yet, so I will… When I (dry fly) fish to spooky trout in still or very clear water I use a tapered floating leader of course, but add a fluouro tippet section before the fly. It sinks and gives the presentation just that little extra naturalness, it seems to make a positive difference.
I also use the fluouro exclusively if wet fly fishing.
I think I might have a little info here. If the hype is to be believed fluoro is denser than mono which means that it will sink, and the refraction properties of fluoro are closer to water than mono, which makes it mostly invisible to fish. I have looked at the large spools of fluoro in the spinning section of the sporting goods stores, and the lb test is consistently lighter per line diameter than the fly shop spools. This may help explain why the fly shop spools are more expensive. Just my $.02.
Traditionally, North American fishing line is sold by the test strength of lines as they were many years ago. Current lines are still the same diameters yet much stronger. That “4lb” labeled spinning line typically breaks around 6-8lbs.
Some brands are notorious for underlabeling their lines to build a reputation for strength and toughness. They can do this because most fishers rarely consider line diameters.
Any labeling which does not provide 2 digit values for test strength and diameter is relatively meaningless for comparisons. You can get a quick field test by wrapping the line around a pencil/pen 10 or 20 times.
Not to disagree, but wouldn’t the misnaming of tensile strength be applicable to flyfishing tippet as well? I have taken identical pound test from a spinning spool and compared it to Rio fluoroflex and the diameter difference was very noticable.
I do not disagree with the premise, but I would think that it would apply to both manufacturers, regardless of diameter.
Not to disagree, but wouldn’t the misnaming of tensile strength be applicable to flyfishing tippet as well?
Fly fishing tippet and leader material is generally chosen and discussed in terms of its diameter, i.e. 0x, 4x, 7x so it makes the most marketing sense to label the highest value (dry breaking strength).
So you see, its the polar opposite to the pitch for spinning line: “The strongest by test” which in essense admits they are lying about the labeled strength.
?The good? in Islam is something to be compelled, on others as well as on yourself. Whereas, in Christianity, ?the good? is something received through Grace.
Conventional wisdom is not to use florocarbon with dries because it sinks. I’m not much on conventional wisdom, so I tried it anyway, and didn’t have a problem with sinking flies.
It seems to me that it’s better if the tippit sinks anyway, instead of making a long funny looking shadow leading to the fly. What do you think?
I understand that the tippet is picked by diameter. But wouldn’t Rio call 3x tippet 6 lb when in reality it is 4.9 lb or something (I am guessing here). I understand that it is .oo8, and that is what a flyfisher looks at, but would they not also benefit from boasting a higher test than say, Umpqua?
So I think that overstating test is a given, though I have never tested them. The point I was making is that the comparable tests are vastly different diameters. If you take the labels at their word, and I contend that tippets have just as much reason to lie to be considered stronger than the others (think Frog Hair), so X value is the comparable based on test strength based on the those labels.
This really interests me…so a few observations and questions.
How about Seagar?..it would seem they come out best… diameter to # test…haven’t seen Varigas’s specs???
My understanding is that companies don’t use the same testing methods so comparing maybe isn’t accurate.
Years ago Maxima was known for under estimating the strength so folks would say…wow that 10# Maxima is better than 15# brand x…that cost me some steelhead till I tumbled…
Except for cost I don’t see why one would not use fluoro all the time for wet fly fishing and though I haven’t used it for dry it seems IMHO that if it does away with the surface film reflection that is a good thing.
I agree that the testing strength is probably different for each company. The fluoro that I looked at was Seaguar, and the comparable tests (the only basis for valid diameter comparison I believe) and the seaguar was noticably thicker in diameter than the tippet material. IMHO, since tippet diameter is directly correlated by the size of the fly, I will use fluoro for all my small dries (18 and smaller) since the weight of the fluoro seems to have no effect on the floatability, but I like that it sometimes breaks the surface tension which does away with those “awful” shadows caused by the surface tension around my floating leader. As a last thought, there is no reason why an individual could not buy seaguar 4 lb and use it as 2x (again estimating as I have none in my hands) and still save money, but a flyfisher would have to mic the seaguar to get a good idea of where it fits into ther tippet arsenal.
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