First Furled Leaders

Well, after studying up on making furled leaders I made a jig tonight and furled 3 5’ leaders with my cordless drill–2 out of Danville 210 and 1 out of 2# mono–all 10/6/4, mostly for my recently acquired 7’6" 3wt. They didn’t turn out too bad for a first effort but I will do a couple of things differently next time. Shorb loops didn’t give me much problem but I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how to put on a tippet ring without a small crochet hook and finally resorted to pulling the leader through the ring with needle and thread looped through the tippet end and then looping the leader back on itself with the slightly larger crochet hook. Because I took the paper clips out the ends had come unfurled a little so I didn’t get as tight a connection to the rings as I would like (one of the things I will do differently next time). Once I got them situated I put a little head cement on them. Do you all think that will last? All in all, a very satisfying evening. Thanks to all for your previous posts that I learned so much from.

Dennis

Of course, everyone has an opinion, and mine is that I’m not sold on terminating your leader with a tippet ring. I personally prefer to attach a single strand of mono. If you want, you can tie a perfection loop in the end of the mono for ease of changing tippet material.

I think using mono better transfers energy from the leader to your tippet than does the tippet ring.

Give both a try and see which you like best.

I personally don’t use tippet rings on my furled leaders nor do I use Shorb loops. I double back the furled section about an inch and a half and then tie a simple overhand knot and use loop-to-loop connections with my fly line and my tippet. I see absolutely no difference in performance and some of my leaders are on their 5th year (and I fish a lot).

Dennis -

Congratulations on your first furled leaders !!

Personally, I’m all for tip rings.

There is a very easy way to incorporate them into a furled leader before you start the twisting / furling. It’s simply a matter of knowing how to slide them down one leg to the point of the “V” before you start the initial twisting.

In my set up, the third post ( at the end of the “V” ) has a fish hook to hold the strands of thread / mono while configuring the leader. When the thread / mono layout is complete, slide the tip rig down one leg, take the threads / mono off the hook and put the tip ring on it.

To slide the tip ring down one leg, thread a piece of thread or fine wire through the very end of the loops of leader material at the end of one leg and bring the end of that thread or wire together. Slide the tip ring down the thread / wire. Take the leader material off whatever it is you have it attached to. Slide the ring onto the leg and replace the leader material on whatever it is you have it attached to. Slide the ring down to the tip end.

Gemrod, as I recall, dispensed with the fish hook that I recommended and simply put the tip ring behind the end post on his set up, as I recall. Seems that he said that when he took the leader off the end post that the ring found its way into place at the very end of the leader just fine.

John

Congratulations!

Looks like you’ve also discovered the joy of experimentation with that 10-6-4 taper.

You might also want to try a smaller diameter thread sometime for the 3 wt line (8/0 Uni, say), but this may work just the way you hope, too. Fun.

Kat

Dal;
One of the fun things about making furled leaders is experimenting with different materials. After a couple of years I’ve found that Uni tying thread holds the loop after the paperclip is removed while other thread do not. The same goes for mono and fluorocarbon lines.
I use 2mm rings on my thread leaders and use a #14 crochet hook to install them.

I originally just knotted the top loop on my leaders and they worked just fine. I do use a shorb loop now, only because I like the way it looks. I’ve actually experimented with doubling the leader over on itself, and securing the loop using a double 4 wrap nail knot. That made a very clean connection, and I never had one fail.

That’s the nice thing, whatever you like and works for you is the way to go.

Almost anything goes !!

A couple times when the thread around tip ring frayed to the point it was ready to go, I’ve just removed the tip ring, tied an overhand knot as close to the end of the leader as possible, trimmed the tag close, and tied on tippet above the knot using a clinch knot, sliding it down to the knot in the leader before pulling it tight. Worked fine.

As far as durability goes, depending on how much you fish, don’t expect to use one for more that 5 or 6 years. I’m still waiting for my first furled leader to wear out, and it’s been 3 years I think. It still turns flies over like nothing you’ve seen. I love 'em.

Im not familiar with the production or use of furled leaders, but can you have shorb loops on both end?

Yes…

Yes - and quite a few folks seem to prefer them that way. I’ve tried furled leaders with shorb loops on both ends, but prefer the tip ring.

So, I figured out why the ends (at least 1 of them) came unfurled a little, besides removing the paper clips. I wanted to use 2 different colors so I built 2 completely separate sides rather than keeping the 2 sides connected at the butt end. Also, the first one I made was with orange and white thread. When I bought my thread I didn’t notice that the white one is waxed flat rather than Flymaster Plus. As a result, the two sides are of different material, one of which is a little less twisted. The other thread leader was also 2 colors but both are Flymaster Plus and it is clearly better. Anyone else have experience using the flat waxed?

You are right in that you usually go thru at least a couple spools of tippet material before you’ll need to change your furled leader. I think what really adds to their life is that they tend not to get wind knots. That’s why I really recommend them for beginning fly fishers, they help to avoid some of those ghastly tangles you get when first learning to cast.

Shakeyfly:

Shorb loops on both ends is fine. That’s how I started making them. I like the rings. Just because of the way it looks. I still use a needle with part of the eye cut out. Now I use it with a small pin vise. Easier to handle.
Materials to experiment with are never ending.

I haven’t had the chance to fish much since I discovered furled leaders. But I am with Mr. Scott. I like the tippet rings. I just haven’t fished with them yet to really know what I think.

I do believe when you slide the tippet ring on one leg of the furled leader you are cutting in half the strength of the leader at the ring. You will only have three strands of thread going through the loop. Therefore I like to loop to loop my tippet rings to the leader…without putting a shorbs loop in the end. There will be a loop there because…well just because. I used to slide the ring on, place a paper clip through the tippet ring and hang my weight from the paper clip. I am not too keen on the shorbs loop on the tippet end of the leader as you are also dividing the leader in half when you thread the end through it. Basically in my mind ending up with the same three threads for strength as sliding the tippet on one leg. Shorbs loop wouldn’t be very weak on the butt end. But I have figured out a way to remove the mono from an L2L Re-Connect and install my furled leader on it. So I don’t have a shorbs loop on either end. I haven’t fished with it yet…but to change leaders…even furled leaders with just the twist of the plastic is pretty slick. Snap a new one on and away you go.

Gemrod

Just a note on test strength of furled leaders with tip rings.

Using Danville 210 Flymaster with tip ring installed as described in my earlier post, on a number of occasions I’ve stuck a fly someplace I couldn’t get to it and had to break it off - up to 2X 10# test tippet.

Every time, the tippet has broken without damage to the leader or tip ring. I haven’t tried to find the maximum test strength of that leader / ring combo by doing static tests with heavier tippet / leader material.

Any one else out there have some tests / experience to share regarding this aspect of furled leaders with tip rings ??

John

John,
That’s good enough for me. If your thread is anywhere near like my Danville 6/0 fly tying thread…at 10 pounds suits me just fine. I will go back to sliding the tippent on one leg. It is a much nicer mount than the loop to loop. The loop to loop tightens up on the ring and it is rather a stiff connection. The slide on ring is a much nicer connection. With the input you have shared with your experience…I am going back to the slide on method.

Thanks for filling us in on your experience. Appreciate it.

Gemrod

Jim -

The 210 is equivalent, I believe, to 3/0. 6/0 will have a lower test strength.

You might want to furl up a leader with 6/0 thread with a tip ring as I’ve described and do a series of static tests on it. ( That sounds like something right up your alley !! )

If I were going to do the testing, I’d start with some light tippet and work up to whatever tippet size it takes to damage the leader / ring combo before the tippet itself breaks.

Would certainly like to see what kind of results you get, if you try it.

John

Just out of curiosity, I would think you WANT a stiff connection. I would not think you’d want to introduce any sort of a hinge point.