What methods do you stillwaters fly fishers use in determining what is on the buffet menu for the fish?
On a river, I’ll turn over a rock or use a fine net that I place behind a feeding lane. Simple. On a lake however, you can’t do this. So what are the best methods in determining the food base for the fish (preferably trout)?
look for nymphs in the water by turning over a rock or stirring up the mud. and putting a net or hand below the stirred up mud.
also look for the insects in spider webs, and other things and then you know what the nymphs will be like.
sorry for the crappy post I need to get off the computer :lol:
Simply assume it’s midges! See:
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/feature … art55.html
and
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/feature … art54.html
Read Phil Rowley, Brian Chan, and Denny Rickards. Watch their videos.
On the rare occasions that midges don’t work, remember to try your midges at different depths…fish near the surface first, then farther and farther down until you find the fish. My plain old searching pattern for this is a pheasant tail nymph in sizes 12-18, and the standard chironomid patterns (sno cone, brassie, etc.)
If you don’t find fish, try scuds of different colors near the bottom.
If none of that works – check the tulles at shore for damsel and dragon nymphs and try those if you find them.
Try leech patterns of different colors, wooly buggers work for both leeches and damsels.
Watch for callibaetis coming off, and check under rocks for their nymphs. Plain old pheasant tail nymph works here too, if your depth is right.
If none of THAT works, try baitfish imitations. For short periods, they can be hot.
I have a fish throat pump, but rarely use it. Can be worth a try though, if nothing else works. I actually despise using it…seems to ‘violate’ the fish a bit much for me. And fish barf is NASTY.
But if nothing above works, you are probably just fishing whatever pattern you have at the wrong depth!
I’m a lake fishing addict for trout – I love stillwaters. In my opinion, in order of importance:
Depth – Presentation/Action – Color-- Pattern-- Relaxed attitude toward finding where the fish are.
DANBOB
When I go to a cafeteria; I have a 100 choices of what to eat but if you were to make a guess on what I was eating based on seeing those choices; you’d still have 100 guesses to make.
In other words; just 'cause it’s there doesn’t mean they are eating it. I prefer to sit and watch the water and try and determine HOW the fish are feeding IF I see them feeding at all. I look at rise forms and try and determine whether they are taking on the surface; in the film or below the film…
…or just below.
If I can’t figure it out; I put on a beetle and try that first; then a midge pupa or a nymph; then I take a drink and observe some more.
Once I get a fish to take a fly…
…I know what they are feeding on. 
I haven’t turned over a rock or seined a stream; let alone a lake in years. Once I have determined how and where they are feeding; I make a fly choice based on these simplistic observations:[ul]
*All nymphs are brown, olive or yellowish and come a few sizes where I fish YET a bead head Prince works 90% of the time when nymph fishing.
*All mayflies come in the same colors ranges as nymphs with white thrown in and two patterns work for me 90% of the time.
*Midges come in the same colors as everything else and work when the fish are midging.
*Beetles work almost 100% of the time and if they don’t I try something else.[/ul]
I just watch the water and make an educated guess. I catch fish all of the time with my uneducated method. I keep the “scientific” portion of my brain reserved for the complicated decisions of what Scotch or cigar I should bring along with me.
I hate to make it sound so simple but I find fly fishing for trout a lot easier than a lot of other types of fishing I do. Trial and error is a GREAT learning tool!
There’s nothing wrong with picking up rocks, seining streams and lakes or checking spiderwebs. (I DON’T feel the same way about pumping fish stomachs though); but I have found that knowledge of fish behavior, body of water structure and local hatch cycles pays ME MUCH higher dividends and doesn’t require a net or get my hands wet.
Good stuff!!! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you…
Great post, Bamboozle (and Dshock too)! I agree on the Prince nymphs, just as good as PTs. Zug Bugs too. Try bead heads and non, since they affect sink rate. All these great classic ‘standard’ nymphs look like everything – midges, mayflies, caddis, scuds, etc when fished at the right depth with the right action. Kinda like the Adams for dries.
I’ve never had much luck with beetles except for waterboatmen, maybe just because of the buffet makeup of the lakes I fish here. Or maybe because I fish them wrong!
Thread Piracy Alert! Boozle, just out of curiosity, and for example: On a high prairie lake at 8,000 feet, late summer, damsel hatch already gone, what would your choice of scotch and cigar be? I’d personally pick Oban and a Don Jose. LOL! :twisted:
DANBOB
danbob:
After much thought and contemplation with the scientific portion of my brain; I’d say probably an Ashton #30 Maduro and “Nadurra” from Glenlivet. At 57.2% ABV it helps to keep you warm at those high elevations.
Not to mention numbing your mistakes! [url=http://www.thesmilies.com:d7831]
[/url:d7831]
I used the tried and true method of asking the guy, up or downstream from me that is catching fish. what he is using. I have found that FF in SE PA are more than willing to share information and more than once I have had them give me flies to try. I am new to SE PA and the local fly fisherman are alway willing to give advise.
While were on the subject of flies,
A Gold Bead Hare’s Ear nymph 12-16 is deadly for Brown trout in a Lake with mayflies. It was almost like they were focused on it.
Soft Hackle Hare’s Ear same size.
Burnt Orange Copper Bead Head Woolybugger size 12. If you don’t catch anything with this fly then there aren’t any fish in the lake.
Doug 
My still water fishing for trout is very limited. However, on a recent trip to Colorado I fished a lake every morning for 5 days starting at about 6:30 in the morning before heading off to the river. Every morning I would arrive at the lake with plenty of rises all within casting distance. Although the fish appeared to be taking midges, I had my most success fishing with #8 and #10 hoppers.
I would cast to the rise and if I didn’t get a strike right away I would then cast to the next rising trout I saw within casting distance. Clearly better than one third of the time I would get a strike. After a few days I began to experiment with other drys including the griffith’s nat. Although they produced, they did not produce as well and with the smaller size flies meant having to fish with a 6x leader which led to more break-offs.
Just some food for thought.
Scott
Scott,
That is very interesting! The fish given a choice, wanted something to sink their teeth into!
Doug
Doug,
My thoughts exactly! I told my fishing partner that they were eating dry toast and we were offering eggs bennedict :lol: But also, the hoppers made a little “splash” on the water which may have gotten their attention.
That’s part of the thrill in fly fishing…trying to fiqure things out.
Scott
Yes, I agree! In addition, I’ve become obsessed with this little stillwater that I’ve been trying my darndest to figure out, and I have till the end of September to do it.
What is the secret???
I’m close to pulling hairs. This is the longest I’ve gone fishless (3 wks). Five times I’ve fish it, each time the rainbows boil around me, pointing, laughing, and snickering…arghhhh…
Jose,
Know the feeling all too well…skunked!
What’s the secrete? Find another stillwater :lol:
I guess expierment and use the the information fom those above.
Scott
If you have a local fly fishing website they’re diamond mine. Just ask. Local DWR forums are good too.
Black, brown (California leech) , blood leechs, Rickards AP Emergers. Size 16 zebra midge (chiron’s), damsel fly nymphs and like Mr. Shock mentioned before, Prince nymphs, PT’s, hare’s ears and soft hackle hare’s ears.
Renegades, wet or dry. Local books. Fish the dropoffs and the weed beds. Another killer pattern is a mouse pattern. Throw it to shore and strip it towards you. You can also fish them from shore and strip.
Jose,
You and I are in a similar situation.
My friend and I have a stillwater fishery we are trying to develope…including planting it…we are trying to figure how successful we have been…for some reason there is essentially no surface activity so we are having a hard time figuring out what sort of population we have…we have not been skunked but it is slow…of course this time of year the hot weather can be an issue…
I’m thinking the fish are deep and mostly doing the chironomid thing…you are probably aware of the two threads I started about chironomid fishing and also the one running right now about sampling stillwaters…
Ducksterman,
From my experience you can’t get blood out of a turnip! The Lakes I chose to fish fell under two categories.
Weed infested, Bug infested, a virtual food factory for the fish! I have visited lakes that don’t have hardly any vegetation in them and those are the worst lakes to flyfish. Look at Wickiup Res. and Crane Prairie! those two bodies of water are close together, but they are completely different in fish habitat. Crane is unbelievable! There are channels going through the weeds and I had to use a SA Fast Sink just to reach the fish that hugged the weeds.
The second kind of Lake or Res. is like Pine Hollow or Rock Creek Res. Not able to support a cycle of life but very relaxing and you catch fish. We can’t always have the perfect setup and sitting on a quiet body of water in your float tube is great!
Ducksterman, if you don’t see bugs flying around your pond, then I would guess there are no mayflies there.
I can tell you even if you had a mayfly hatch you would still do better fishing under the surface. Trout might take dries in a river but they like to eat their food below the surface. Fishing nymphs and soft hackles dead slow is the way to catch fish.
Doug
Silver, if the rainbows are rising around you and you can’t get them to take anything – pay close attention to the rise forms. A ‘rise ring’ could indicate many different things — to the point that you could be just seeing the ring from the fish’s tail a foot below the surface as he turns around after nabbing a bug a foot down! My immediate response to your situation (those blankety-blanking fish are rising all over and I can’t get a blankety blank one to hit my blanking fly, as I would be putting it!) would be to switch to an emerger, in or below the surface film. Or a soft-hackle wet fly, too.
I agree with D-shock, a gold ribbed hare’s ear is another awesome ‘universal’ lake fly.
AND – I’ve just been convinced to try beetles again. I’ll be tying some up this weekend. Folks in this thread, and lots of other folks, have been talking about them recently. I’m leaving in a week for a fishing trip on colorado’s Grand Mesa, hundreds of lakes that are brand new to me. A new lake can be a huge challenge! Which I guess is why I like lake fishing so much.
DANBOB
Speaking of fishing a new Lake for the first time, it can be a humbling experience. You have to gather intell about hatches from anyone and everyone before you attempt to flyfish a new lake. In my case, you also need to learn the best put-in for your float tube, unless your Fly Goddess (motorized).
Remember, a bait fisher in a motor boat can do anything he wants on any body of water, but when it comes to flyfishing in a pontoon (oar power) or float tube (fin power) it’s important to find lakes that support insect life and when you have those magical moments when your fishing in a school of fish over a weed bed, well it’s so relaxing and fun! and you don’t have to be in a hurry to go anywhere!
Fishing Soft Hackle flies is the smartest thing to do when fish are not taking dries but emergers just under the surface. If there aren’t any rises then switch to a nymph.
I’m sure a lot of people know this already, but when your fishing in your pontoon or tube, Keep Your Rod Tip in the water, aimed at the fish.
About fly line, I use SA Intermediate Sink fishing in shallow water, relating to the shoreline and SA Fast Sink in deeper water (nymphs, woolybuggers)
Doug