Will a competant caster be able to cast more line and bigger bugs with a faster action rod than one that is say medium to medium fast?
Jeff
That’s the rumor, but fast action rods just don’t suit some people’s casting stroke and can be more difficult for them to cast even if they are competent casters IMHO. In time they can adapt to the different action, but it often just isn’t as simple as picking up a faster action rod and automatically being able to cast farther. Personally, I prefer faster action rods because they are better suited to my casting style and fishing.
Warren F.
Bozeman, MT
A good caster can cast both about the same. It is understanding the action of the rod and how it reacts with a given casting stroke that matters. A good caster knows when he or she picks a rod up what it will or will not do with a given stroke before they ever cast that rod. Just takes a little time on the water, lawn or pond. Ron
[This message has been edited by RonMT (edited 18 March 2005).]
Supposedly, and that’s fine if all you are concerned with is casting line and not the catching of fish. It is, at least in my experience, much easier to fight and land a big trout with a rod that has an action somewhat more flexible than many of the broomsticks currently available.
Ron,
Very true words… nothing beats practice on the water or in the backyard!
Z
Yes, and remember, a fast action rod is not a stiff rod.
If say two 6wt rods are compared,the fast action will have more power in the lower 2/3 of the blank and have the ability to store more engergy than a soft action rod. The fast action will cast farther with less effort and it will be much easier to produce tight efficient loops.
Regards,
FK
I’ve heard that rumor, and there may be some merit to it. However, and here is the caviat, I’m not what I consider a compitant caster. I get most generally 60+ feet out of my good casts. I have mostly medium to medium/fast rods, but have also cast some “FAST” action rods and the results are about the same. The other day, I picked up a 6 weight that for some reason has been getting a lot of bad rap. Some folks for some reason don’t like the color of the Sage Launch series rods. I happen to think they blend nicely with the foliage along most streams and rivers. It’s kind of an Olive/Gold color. I suppose if your are a fan of the Royal Coachman, that a PMD might look a bit off color. My point is, that with my 60+ limitation on most of my casting, I had line out to 75’ in about 5 false casts. I’m not a great caster, but that particular rod/unknown line combination made me look like I knew what I was doing. I can hardly wait till I can afford one. They are less than $200, and I highly recomend trying one out. Even if you don’t like the color.
A free gift waits for those who ask.
Lotech Joe
I am an average caster. I find that the faster rods require more precise timing that I do not have on a regular basis. So I loose power because I am not quite accurate enough in my timing. The slower or medium rods temd to hide more of your faults. For me I do not gain anything on average and do find it more frustrating to use a faster rod.
jed
I’ll let you know this summer I am getting my first fast action rod!! -Yaf
I’d argue that the overall rod design has more to do with performance and distance than simply being a “fast” or “moderate” action rod. As pointed out above, “fast” doesn NOT mean stiff, though many “fast” rods are very “stiff”. Fast, moderate-fast, moderate/medium, and slow refer to where the rod blank primarily flexes when under load (i.e. with the appropriate line weight in grains past the tip during the casting stroke).
By way of example, many of our customers tell us they’ve never cast as far with their ultra-fast X brand sticks as they do with our Bow River Series of rods, which are largely moderate-fast actions.
The secret to increased distances lies with the rod’s ability to store energy and then release it cleanly and powerfully upon unloading (the “stop” in the casting stroke). If the potential is there, it is then up to the caster to get a feel for the characteristics of that individual rod and tweak his/her stroke to get the most out of it. Some actions just seem to fit some casters better, though a truly great caster can adjust their stroke to most actions. I am not the latter, and as a result I humbly admit that many of our customers can cast our Salmon & Steelhead Series further and with more proficiency than I can, though I can hold my own with the best of them with our Bow River Series!
John
G&L FlyCraft
Art. Science. Sport. Welcome to the convergence.
[url=http://www.gandlflycraft.com:7dc26]www.gandlflycraft.com[/url:7dc26]
Thanks everyone, for the replies.
John,
I think I may have misunderstood you, but from what you typed I understand that it is possible to get a stiff rod with a medium to medium fast action? I always assumed that a stiffer rod was a faster action rod. If this rings true, then I assume that a stiffer medium or medium fast action rod is going to essentially cast further than a not as stiff rod in the same actions. Perhaps I am understanding you wrong.
Jeff
I own both fast action and medium action rods and love using both of them. There are some fast action rods that are true tomato stakes, and some that seem to have alot of feel for a fast action rod. I think the Sage XP may be one of the best fast action rods made. I really enjoy fishing the XP, but at the same time I really like gettting my old Scott G series or Sage DS2 out and fishing one of the local creeks. There is something very casuall and relaxing about medium action rods. I also like that fact that you can feel medium actions rods load the line a little better than the faster rods. I still fish the sage xp, but I love getting the medium actions out. So I guess I like them both.
Mike
Jeff,
I would agree with John that a fast rod and a stiff rod are not the same thing.
An example of a “stiff” rod would be a GLX or some of the Scott s3 rods. They just don’t bend much at all when casting. I’m not big on stiff rods because you don’t feel the flex as much and its harder to me to tell when the rod is loaded.
The Sage XP rods are very “fast”, but not stiff. The rod bends only in the upper third of the blank when casting, but does bend enough to let you feel it load. Their action is really very consistent throughout the whole range. Before I cast one, I refused to believe that there was such a thing as a fast four weight. Casting a 490-4 XP made me a believer. I could still haul hard and bend it down to the middle, but it absolutely was a fast rod.
I also need to agree with Ursus that a medium fast rod will be better at throwing wider loops and that this is more ideal for big/heavy flies. A good caster can throw these loops with an actual broomstick, but its not easy or fun.
If you need to cast more line, especially into the wind, then a fast rod is a better tool. If you need to throw bigger bugs, you’ll be better off with a medium fast rod or a heavier line-weight rod.
Actually throwing bigger bugs is the one situation where I will endorse over-lining a rod. You won’t be able to throw as far, but it will open up your loops.
BigCliff,
Thanks for the tips.
Jeff
Jeff: SORRY! Lost track of this thread! 
Action refers to where the rod primarily flexes. The terms “fast”, “medium”/“moderate”, and “slow” have always bugged me because of what they imply. A “fast” rod is one that flexes primarily in the top 1/3 or even 1/4, moderate one that flexes in the top 1/2, and “slow” being one that flexes into the butt section (all under normal load, not while fighting a fish, etc.).
So you can have a moderate action rod that is a total powerhouse casting machine, and a fast action rod that does not have the same capacity for distance, etc. A great example of this from the custom rodbuilding end would be Dan Craft’s Five Rivers Series Signature V blank–it is TECHNICALLY a “moderate” or “moderate-fast” action blank in terms of its angle of action / flex pattern. But it creates higher line speed than almost any stick on the market and you’re left with your jaw hanging and what’s left of your BACKING in your line hand! 
To directly answer your questions, YES, you can get a “stiff”, moderate to moderate-fast rod. And your theory/conclusion is probably correct in a general sense. GENERALLY SPEAKING a “stiff” rod constructed of higher modulus material will have a higher speed of recovery (damping speed) and as a result will release the energy forward into the line with greater “punch”, creating the potential for higher line speed and longer distances. It is also true that a competent caster can do seemingly miraculous things with a “soft” moderate action rod, so all this must be taken in balance.
Anyway, sorry I didn’t reply sooner!
John
G&L FlyCraft
Art. Science. Sport. Welcome to the convergence.
[url=http://www.gandlflycraft.com:38f47]www.gandlflycraft.com[/url:38f47]
I’ve owned a st. croix legend ultra and now fish with a sage TCR. With my poor casting technique, I can definitely cast bigger flies with the broomstick TCR. The st croix was like a noodle. A faster rod doesn’t necessarily mean less fishability. If the rod tip is supple enough like the TCR, I use 6-7X tippets without problems. You feel every jerk and twitch of the fight rather than the lifeless tug with a slow rod.
“of the fight rather than the lifeless tug with a slow rod.”
I like that phrase,it reminds me of fishing with a bamboo rod. Soft, heavy and mushy action.
Regards,
FK
John,
Gotcha, and thanks for the tip on the Dan Craft blank.
Jeff
Danbo, That mass = distance formula still doesn’t work on floating lines. A better term might be ‘less is more’!
BigCliff, I think the TFO TicrX or Sage TCR might be a better rod to choose as a fast, stiff rod. The GLX has power yet the tip is very forgiving… about the same or more so I would say than the XP.
Can’t you tell it’s Monday and going back to work has me in a contrary mood?
John,
Although technically the modulus of material incorporated in a fly rod and the fly rod action are independent considerations, I think that there is a much higher correlation between the two then you are letting on. For example, when is the last time you saw a ultra-high modulas material utililized in a truly slow action rod? Generally speaking (90-95% of the time) rod designers are utilizing higher-modulus materials in fast-action rods (graphite 3 and 4), and lower-modulus materials in moderate to slow action rods (im6 and fiberglass), because those materials lend themselves better to each of those respective actions. And, although you pointed out that you can make a moderate action rod with stiff materials, I think you can agree with me it’s difficult to impossible to build a very fast action rod with low-modulus materials unless they are ungodly heavy (I have cast some, such as the Sage 9-wt Fiberglass rods from the 1980’s. They were like casting telephone poles). So, isn’t the argument a little moot? I realize that technically speaking it’s important to seperate the materials used in a rod vs. the action, but I think that it boils down more to semantics than reality. Most everyone will be correct almost all the time in saying that “fast action” and “stiff material” go hand-in-hand, and that “moderate” or “slow action” is assocaited with softer materials.
Just curious what you think about this.
-John