I’ve been experimenting with various nymph patterns for larger mayfly hatches such as Brown Drakes and Isos. These nymphs are different than the usual mayfly nymphs I tie in that they are quite a bit larger and they also have a lot movement. I’m wondering what you all recommend in terms of pattern types. It seems like I’ve seen several alternatives:
– Nymph tied on long shank hook
– Nymph tied on short hook with extended furled body
– Nymph tied on short hook with extended marabou body
– Nymph tied on short hook with articulated body.
Also with articulated nymphs, I’m interested in thoughts on how the rear portion should be attached to the front. I’ve tried heavier mono and braided fly backing looped through the rear hook eye. I’ve also tried lashing mono and fly backing to the rear hook. These all seem to have slightly different action.
… nymphs have done very well for me since I started tying them a few months ago. Figuring out to incorporate tails in a furled extended body was the jumping off point for me to start tying these nymphs.
The long …
… and short …
… of it.
The long one is JARS tied on a size 8 3X long curved shank hopper hook which makes for a big stonefly nymph. The short one is a Serendipitous PT nymph tied on a size 14 2X short nymph hook which was tied for a PMD hatch.
I think the furled extended body makes for a lot more action, which ranks third in my priorities in fly tying and selection, behind size and shape, and ahead of color. I don’t know how you can achieve the potential for movement that these flies have with a simpler, less complicated approach to tying extended body nymphs. Obviously, I haven’t put on a snorkel mask and tried to see how they actually move in moving water, but when they are hung below an indicator or off a dry fly which is bobbing along in the chop of the current, it is pretty easy to imagine the FEB and the tails have very exaggerated movement compared to a nymph tied in the conventional manner on a nymph hook.
The marabou would provide lots of good action but I don’t know how you would incorporate tails. The articulated nymphs are more complicated and require a lot more work from start to finish. The times that I have tied them I used mono tippet material to connect them, as I recall.
John, I’ve tried some furled extended bodies, but I really have trouble with the incorporated tails. I’ve studied your JARS FOTW, but just can’t seem to get the hang of it. I either end up with tail butts not incorporated (sticking out to the side) and / or a furl that is too loose. Seems like when I grasp near the tails, the body doesn’t furl well and when I don’t grasp the tails, they get out of control and don’t get incorporated. My furled bodies without tails seem to work ok. Got any more tips?
The first extended body nymph I ever saw was a display fly tied by Oliver Edwards the first time I met him. It was 1991/2, I can’t recall the exact date. He had used a loop of mono to attach two hooks and cut the bend off the second hook. He had tied rubber band sections either side of the joint. As it was a large “super imitative” stone fly nymph, tied for display, I have no idea of how it would fish. I have never pursued this kind of articulation as to me it isn’t very imitative. It is a hinge type joint, whereas I would describe the action of a nymph as a wave travelling along its body.
Later I came across furled bodies as part of a dubbing technique in articles by Davie Wotton. He mentioned that tales could be incorporated in the articles, but didn’t include any instructions. When I met up with him next I asked him to demonstrate this, to which he said I should ‘work it out myself’. At that point I tried with methods similar to the how John Scott makes his. However, as my fly tying was then moving in a commercial direction, I didn’t pursue this for long. I have though a different method for making a FEB that I will offer later.
It hasn’t been something I have really pursued in the way John has. I have found that colour is more important in nymphs than it is in dry flies. One river I fished the nymphs tended to have brighter dorsal sides than I was used to seeing. Imitating this lead to an improvement in catch rates. That’s when I developed my ByColour Nymph, as an easier way to imitate the dorsal and ventral colours. I have seen another method for tying a similar nymph but I find it a rather more difficult fly to tie. It would be possible to incorporate the method into a FEB, though at this point it is just an idea, and may be difficult to achieve. I’ll have a play at the vice when I get going later. (Its 5 am here).
A more important factor than colour to me is depth. It is sometimes much more difficult to get a fish to rise up for a nymph than it is to get a fish to move sideways to a nymph. Getting a small nymph deep has been one of the things I have pursued.
Marabou can be used to make a FEB. In doing so it will loose a lot of its movement. What it does give you is a good imitation of gills along the body. The method I would use for making this is. I must apologise. This is not easy do and photograph working alone. In the photos I didn’t get enough twist into the materials. The last photo was one I did separately. It isn’t easy to hold two tools and the camera at the same time!
Take a bunch of marabou and tie it onto a mount. (Either a hook shank or needle mounted in your vice). Include with it the materials for your tail. The tail material should be half the length of the body + the tail length you want.
With your probe clip or long nose hackle pliers grip the marabou and thread.
Spin the bobbin holder and hackle pliers.
Once spun up tease out the tails from the half way point with your bodkin.
Place the bodkin at the half way point and lift your bobbin holder back to the mount folding the twisted material around your bodkin.
Slide your bodkin out of the fold and encourage the materials to furl.
Grip the FEB close to where it is tied to the mount with hackle pliers, and trip off the mount.
Note, The colours I have used are for clarity, I’m demonstrating a technique not tying a fishing fly! Colour doesn’t matter to technique use whatever colour you like.
You may find that method easier than using two probe clips. I would not say it is better than the method John uses. Its just the way I did them years ago when I first came across them. Personally I think I prefare John’s method. A different way though may help you.
Sorry again about the photos, they are not the best. Hope they get it across.
The method you show is quite similar to a method for an FEB with incorporated tails that I tried several years ago. That one was tied on the hook, and it just didn’t work very well. The “failure” of that approach lead me to develop the one I now use. Thinking about the gill thing, it has occurred to me that maybe marabou would make a better material than the ostrich herl that I tried ( it’s the second fly in the Serendipitous nymph thread ), but I haven’t gotten around to trying it yet. Not even sure I have any marabou at this point.
John -
This is one place where it’s easier done than said. The irony may be that the fly shown above is the very first JARS I tied. I don’t think it has been as easy since.
It is hard to describe the technique and I need to go tie a few JARS with your request for “tips” in mind. Maybe I can come up with something a little more helpful than anything I can say this morning before I’ve had a cup of coffee. The thing that did come to mind is this - I had tied a LOT of smaller FEB with tails mayflies before I got to JARS. So I had a lot of practice in the basic technique with materials that were easier to work with. Maybe some practice with one strand of antron and some thread for the “tails” would be a good place to start.
We’re headed down to Salmon ID for the day in a few minutes but when I get back, or tomorrow, I’ll put in a little time on your request.
John
P.S. May we can get Hans to do a video demonstrating my technique.
Just finished tying several JARS with your request in mind, John.
Here are some ideas - don’t skimp on the length of the tailing material, don’t overtwist the antron, find a good angle to start the furling process, grasp the antron just where the tailing material emerges, concentrate on pulling up and twisting the antron in the direction it wants to furl as you release tension on the twisted strand.
I use 2" strands of antron for just about all the FEBs I do, whether for small mayfly or caddis dries or large stonefly nymphs. There is always some waste, but that is preferable to not having enough material to work with.
The tailing material is usually at least twice as long as the antron strands.
For JARS, with three strands of antron, six or seven turns of each clip in opposite directions seems to provide the best amount twist. For smaller flies with fewer strands of antron, more twists are required. But that will depend on your twisting technique and will likely require some experimentation.
When I start the furling, after transfering both clips to my left hand and maintaining tension, I grasp the tailing and antron and pull up at about the 1:00 0’clock angle, letting the tailing material dangle down and kind of across the furling antron strands.
Release tension on the furling strands rather slowly and evenly, continuing to twist the furling antron and letting the tailing material wrap around it as it furls.
When the furling is done, grasp the FEB tightly at the base and maintain a tight grip as you remove the clips and until you have secured the FEB to the hook shank.
That is the best I can do without pix - and pix would require three hands, if not more !!
Hope this helps.
John
P.S. Even at this point, I have to occasionally start over on the FEB because I don’t get the tails incorporated satisfactorily. But in the end, it is worth it. And I think the fishies are less interested in the “satisfactorily” part of it than I am.
Byron, its usually at about 30 degrees. the angle under the jaw makes it seem more upright. Those I had to adjust for the photos. I have a very carefully worked out tying position. Put your fist under your chin, while sitting in your tying chair. Where your elbow comes to is where you want the vice jaws. It is a position where nothing is straining while I tie. Thats why a pedestal is out of the question. The table height has to be so low to accommodate a pedestal that your knees will not go under the table. Then you would be leaning forwards. That position is stressful if maintained for too long. If your wondering if your set up is good try tying 10 dozen flies in a day at it!
Cheers,
A.
Thanks John and Alan. You’ve both given me some good tips. Now I think I need to experiment and practice. I’ve got about a month until I expect to see Brown Drakes around here, so I’ve got some time to practice.
Mostly I tie trout and smaller salmon flies. With those rotary tying doesn’t offer me much. At least not conventional rotary. I am considering a NorVise for the extra speed.
Just out of curiosity what’s the “Design Position”, and why is there a flexible joint to adjust it, if that is the position it should be used in?
Cheers,
A.
