Excessive warranty "fees"

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
21

What do I tell my grandchildren the extra “F” was for? Should I tell them it was a stutter?

If they’re smart enough to figure it out don’t you think they’re mature enough to handle it? Seriously, how many of your grandkids are reading some thread about how some crappy fly rod company deals with warranty issues? Really, I want to know, I’m sure that all the kids are enthralled by threads like this one, it gives them something to talk about when school starts back up.

I agree that $75 or 1/4 the rod price is excessive if it came with a warranty. They get new rods made and shipped for way less than that so they’re making a bit of money off of this bad deal.

22

Benjo,

First, I will try to make this an informative reply, not a contraversial one. Yes, my grandchildren, especially my 6 year old grandaughter, likes to climb up on my lap and begins reading the posts to me. My twelve year old grandson reads them because of his interest in fishing.

Let me liken it to this incident. The other night at football practice, I had a mother and staff member get right up to another staff members face, angry I might add, and was cussing her out, rather loudly, F this and F that. I banned her from any further participation on our team.

Some of us won’t lower our standards, period. I was told to forget about it on an earlier post. Just forgetting about something or not dealing with issues is the easy way to raise children.

My whole point in the beginning was to, as nicely as possible, tell a new member, judging by the number of posts, that he had a worthy point, just this forum was a family forum. All ages read it and we (I) could do without the extra alphabetical help. If the format, as I understand it to be, for this forum changes, then I will have to make a decision. Until that time, I will support the ideals and principles of this forum.

Sorry guys, I won’t subordinate my principals. I guess it would be a form of hypocracy on my part wouldn’t it?

23

adamtn, i’d look at the orvis clearwater series. they’re on sale right now on the orvis website. i bought the 8’6" 5 wt. as a “backup” and have ended up using it more than any of my other rods this summer. nice rod for the money, plus a 25 yr. waranty and you should be out only your shipping cost if you need to have the rod repaired. from past experience orivs customer service is top notch.

24

I was thinking about this… This isn’t a warranty program. It’s a repair program. I like what was posted about the $15 Cortland warranty. Since UPS and FedEx (and I’m assuming USPS) charges extra for longer than normal length (which is any 2 piece rod), I don’t think $15 is bad at all. Right now, that’s about 5 gallons of gas.

25

Elkhorn has a policy that you pay a certain amount to get a rod repaired regardless of the cause of the breakage. I think they raised their price to $35 per repair and no more than $75 for 'boo. Check their web site for exact costs.

If the price of a is not to your liking don’t buy the rod. I don’t consider it very much because I don’t break alot of rods. If its $25 or $50 every two or three years I don’t see that as a significant roadblock to buying the rod I like.

As for a post with f…, :roll: I think that you can tell a child the truth. That it is an adult word that is not for children to use and the poster was kind enough not to spell it out so they could read the post. T

here is always a fine line between having a site be child friendly and people being able to express themselves. I know we cannot use those words here but I don’t know that the implication of those words is banned as well. Maybe JC or LF can weigh in on this upon their return. My mother-in-law used to say that people who used those words were just ignorant or lazy and did not bother to find a better way to express theselves.

jed

26

It has been removed from the original post. I am positive JC & LF would not approve of using it.
I politely request we all STOP refering to it. Consider it over.
Please do not make me lock this posting as I am very interested in it and am sure many of you are also. It is a good thread.
lets just drop it and go fishin.

Respectfully
Denny

27

Okay, I’m going to play ‘manufacturer’s advocate’.

When you bought the rod it was $150 and new. You got a warranty that, according to “tailingloop”, specifies the warranty coverage and cost. You did not say how long you’ve had the rod. The company was going to hold up its warranty but you think the cost is excessive.

Now I have never cast a Fly Logic rod. In fact I associate that name with reels and didn’t even know the company made rods. However, I’d say that you are being dealt with honestly by the company. It also seems as if there’s something not being said.

Allan

28

“There have been no facts left out on this story, the names have not been changed to protect the inonncent”

The rod was an FLP+905/6 i bought it online for less than retail last year in december and sent in my card. I dont remember it saying there was such a high fee but if others do I believe them.I didn’t step on it or shut it in the car door. I was just fishing a wooly bugger with the rod and out of the blue it broke midcast.

i called fly logic first thing monday morning and spoke to one person and then his manager. Neither offered any compromise or ammends and said that it would be $75 even if they were rewrapping just a couple of guides for me which i was gonna have to have done this week before it broke. This is one of my biggest gripes.

If i had known that this was their policy before i made the purchase i think it would have affected my purchase. I have learned a good lesson from this and will be making a trip to a LOCAL fly shop and spending my money there on a TFO or another affordable rod with a good warranty this week.

29

Here is a way to look at costs. I can sell a rod for $150 and warranty it for $25 or I can sell the same rod for $110 and charge $50 for the repairs. Manufacturers have a good idea on the return rate and it is just a matter of pricing the product and warranty together. This may be one reason you were able to pay less for your rod.

(note: prices are purely a figment of my imagination)

jed

30

Hey Folks,

My only concern is that the warantee be presented in plain english with
no ambiguities. Tell me what I’m getting up front and what it’s gonna
cost me if…! I don’t want to find out after the fact that a warrantee is
useless. Temple Forks Outfitters, a sponsor here, has an excellent
warrantee in my opinion. You know when you buy the rod that it is
covered for whatever! If you use the warrantee, you send the rod to
them with $25 and they make it right, in a hurry! No doubts, no hurt
feelings. Warm regards, Jim

31

just checked fly logic web page

here is thier rod warranty

i put the main part in bold

Your Fly Logic rod includes a lifetime warranty free from defects in materials or workmanship to the original owner only. We carefully inspect all rods prior to shipment; however, should you detect any defect in either material or workmanship, please return your rod to an Authorized Fly Logic Dealer or by prepaid postage to:

Fly Logic, Inc.,
511 Broadway Avenue, P.O. Box 270
Melba, Idaho 83641-0270
Phone: 208-495-2090
E-mail: fli@flylogic.com

To initiate the warranty, please complete the registration card provided with your rod and return to Fly Logic within thirty (30) days from date of purchase.

Fly Logic will repair or replace the defective part(s) and return the rod to the original owner for a $75 processing, handling, and shipping fee. If your rod qualifies for warranty coverage but is discontinued, Fly Logic reserves the right to replace with a compatible product or item(s) of equal or greater value.

For International customers, $100 (USD) is the charge for repair or replacement which includes the processing, handling, and shipping fee. Fly Logic will only accept a valid credit card for an International warranty claim. Please fax your credit card information to 1-208-495-2064 including; full name, card number, expiration date, and address where you receive your statement.

Your Fly Logic rod should be periodically cleaned as described in the owner’s manual. Properly cared for, your rod will provide you with many years of great memories. Welcome to the Fly Logic family.

To implement the warranty, please complete the registration card provided with your rod and return to Fly Logic within thirty (30) days from date of purchase.

This warranty does not extend to any Fly Logic product that has been damaged or rendered defective as a result of (1) unreasonable use or neglect, (2) the use of parts not supplied by Fly Logic, or (3) modification of the product. Nor does the warranty cover normal wear and tear caused by use of the product over time.

THE ABOVE-DESCRIBED WARRANTY IS GIVEN IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED.

This warranty is limited as set forth above and does not cover any consequential, special or incidental damages. These limitations and exclusions may not apply to you, depending upon specific legal rights, which may vary from state to state.

01/06

32

WARNING!!! RANT TO FOLLOW!!!

If I order something from Cabela’s and it arrives broken or I get the wrong item because of THEIR mistake, it doesn’t cost me a cent to ship it back. This is the way it should be. I also don’t pay freight a second time to get the correct item.

So can someone please convice me why I should pay inbound freight PLUS a repair fee disguised as a shipping & handling fee to cover the cost of a repair to a DEFECTIVE warrantied rod ? It isn’t MY fault the rod is defective. Fly rod manufacturers do this so they incur minimum expense for their boo-boos. It really isn’t fair to have to pay $30 (more-or-less) for return S & H when it ISN’T your fault. I know from running a distribution business that it doesn’t cost $30 to pack and ship a 2-4 pound item even with overhead. With insurance added to your inbound freight shipment and the handling fee to get it back from the manufacturer, you can spend close to $50 to get a rod repaired because the manufacturer screwed up!

Even auto makers absorb the cost of a recall. How would you folks with the defective Dell batteries feel if you had to pay a $30 handling fee to get your replacement battery?

I’ve sent in quite a few rods for repairs, none of which were my fault. I have complained about the freight policy and have got some relief but the policy does stink. My warranty cards only say what is covered, not how much it will cost if it ISN’T my fault. And I might add that many companies changed their policy after the fact.

Many thousands of years ago I purchased an Eagle Claw Trail Master fly/spin rod after my hero Jerry McKinnis recommended it on “The Fishin’ Hole”. It came with a Lifetime Unconditional Warranty and a warranty card that I kept. 20 years later, I lost a a section due to a loose ferrule and called Eagle Claw to inquire about a repair under warranty. Their reply was: “we don’t offer a lifetime warranty”. My reply was: “I still have the original 20+ year old warranty card that clearly says Lifetime Unconditional Warranty and I could fax it to them if they wished”.

I sent in the rod and it was repaired at no cost at all to me!

My fly rod manufacturer of choice added the handling fee about a year after I bought most of the rods I have of theirs.

If manufacturers don’t want the Lifetime Warranty, (and most of them HATE it), then be big and brave enough to dump it, lower the rod price and charge a fair amount for ALL repairs. Don’t keep adding on repair fees disguised as handling charges. Most of us don’t send back rods for repairs anyway.

And I don’t blame Orvis for all of this as many do. The others could have opted out and not gone bankrupt.

Sorry for the rant but this issue makes me nuts!

END OF RANT

33

Bamboozle,
Interesting rant. I have a few comments. First is that you or I and even those on the manuacturing side often cannot tell the exact cause of breakage. We all tap our rods with beadheads, trees or whatever during their lifetime. When a rod breaks casting who short of a structural engineer can tell with certainty what percentage of a failure is due to manufacturing weakness, normal wear and tear or accidental abuse. I know when I slam it in the car door why it broke, but if it breaks on the stream it is much less clear. So rather than getting into an argument with every rod where the user is claiming the problem to be a manufacturers defect and the company sees it as a users fault they have come up with a system where the cost of the repairs or replacement is negligable to the manufacturer and minimal to the end user. I don’t mind paying this way as I know in my lifetime some of the fault is theirs and some is mine and now I don’t have to worry about it any more. When my rod breaks it cost me something but it doesn’t break the bank.

I like it.

jed

34

Interestingly, I don’t see any language in the Flylogic warranty covering the “my fault” problem. In fact it specifically does not cover it. Comparing this warranrty to TFO, St, Croix, Sage etc.really isn’t fair. Whether the specific warranty detail was known or not, this one is no more warranty than you get on a popcorn popper at walmart. No, actually Walmart will replace it free.

35

Just an observation on my end, but in 2003 Orvis introduced a $30. fee on all rods tagged 2003. But I also noticed that their rod prices came down slightly. Fair trade off? I think it HAS to happen. The People that will break a rod to get a new one made that happen.

36

I feel that a modest fee in the range of 10-20% of the original cost to cover their material costs and shipping etc. is acceptable. It is just that their fees seemed to be enough to cover costs and possibly some small profit to the company for THEIR poor craftsmanship. I wont buy anything else from this company and would suggest to others to beware. The rod fished great for the first several months but i want a rod that will last years.

37

Fly Logic Warrantee(the key element)

"Your Fly Logic rod includes a lifetime warranty free from defects in materials or workmanship to the original owner only. We carefully inspect all rods prior to shipment; however, should you detect any defect in either material or workmanship, please return your rod to an Authorized Fly Logic Dealer or by prepaid postage:

Fly Logic will repair or replace the defective part(s) and return the rod to the original owner for a $75 processing, handling, and shipping fee."

So I guess if you buy a F.L. rod, take it home and soon thereafter notice a manufacturers defect like thread coming loose on a wrap, a loose seat, or something else, you not only have to pay the shipping to F.L., you also have to pay them $75 to correct a defect the company created. WOW! Is that a great warrantee or what! :? :evil:

After I read that ‘warrantee’ I emailed F.L. and expressed what I thought about it and why I’ve eliminated all F.L. products from consideration concerning future equipment purchases. Maybe if enough fly fishers do the same the company will look at its warantee policy.

Allan

38

Provided the defect is a break. All of my rod problems were non-break issues: Loose grip, loose ferrule, crooked guide and all were acknowledged manufacturing defects yet I still had to suck-it-up.

Unfortunately like most catch-all warranties, most get screwed when they shouldn’t. Breakage should be treated entirely different and maybe that’s where the fees should be applied due to the grey area of fault.

Bottom line, call it was it is: a small fee repair program. I may be old fashioned but to me a warranty or guarantee implies I’m not paying if it gets broke and it ain’t my fault!

39

It’s still being done today, that a building was/is constructed with the idea to draw more attention to the building, thereby increasing the number of people that will notice it and maybe patronize the business. It was/is called a “facade”. For which the synonyms are; false front, pretense, etc.

You sir, have fallen victim to a facade. It’s a shame that customer service doesn’t apply anymore.

Good luck with your efforts to get satisfaction.

40

Dear bamboozle,

Nice rant! :smiley:

Moving on to the point of Adam’s original post Fly Logic doesn’t offer a warranty of any type despite how they word it. It’s nothing more than a repair subsidy for incompetent workmanship and they should be forthright enough to state that plainly in bold print in the very first sentence of their warranty statement. I’ll go as far as to say that what they state in their warranty borders on being criminal in certain states. Here is why I feel this way.

Fly Logic is using their warranty program for profit and that violates the spirit and intent of a warranty. One can easily ship a rod coast to coast insured for $ 12.00. If one wants to, they can include a prepaid return tag for a total of $ 24.00. The shipping materials are available for free just for the asking at any US Post Office.

Imagine for a moment the following scenario. You purchase a brand new car for $ 25,000. Nine months after taking possession the engine develops a knock and you phone the dealer to ask for his advice. The dealers says that if you tow the car in and bring along a check for $ 12,500 he will repair or replace the vehicle at his option.

Do think a call to the Better Business Bureau or your home State’s Attorney General’s Office might get the dealer to change his tune on the repair costs? I certainly do.

I’ll never own a piece of Fly Logic equipment in my lifetime and I will advise anyone considering a purchase of one of their products to reconsider. I hope all of you will do the same.

Best Wishes,
Avalon :smiley: