I just finished up tying some bead biot epoxy stone fly nymphs (from Mike Mercer’s Creative fly tying). I am generally please with the flies themselves but I am not happy with the epoxy job. I tied these for the beginners only fly swap, we have to turn in 12 but I tied up 30 trying to get 12 good ones. any advise on how I should have actually done the epoxying? I mixed the epoxy and applied with a flat tooth pick. thank you in advance for the suggestions. should have asked after the first few but kept experimenting on my own.
Howdy jeremy,
I do alotta epoxy flies and have wide variety of tools that I use for different applications.
My favorite is just a Dental tool that is bent and looks as tho it has a 1/2"knife blade but is accually for scraping your teeth…the handle is about 7" long.
Also use "O"Ring kit pullers, and they work really well for small stuff…perfect for mixing and applying.
You can use anything with a curve or a bent point and angled etc.
Hope that will help you.
Jeremy, you didn’t say if you were using 5 minute epoxy or what. If I were going to tie more than a couple of flies I would use 30 minute or longer to allow more time to work the material to the stage I wanted it. Just my 2%.
I was using 5 minute epoxy, and to be honest I guess I had not realized that there was longer time options. does it matter if you use Devcon or Loctite? are there any differences?
The shorter the time to the epoxy takes to set or kick, the more likely that your fly will “yellow” over time or when exposed to the sun.
Different tyers have favorite brands; I know there are 30 minute epoxies out there, the two part finishes for rods, etc can take a couple of hours. Longer drying time brings up the need for a turner to keep the fish from dripping.
You can always think of using the UV stuff since some can be cured by sun light or a special flash light. Some can be a bit more on the spendy side but UV Knot Sealer seems to work for me in place of most epoxy if I don’t want to get high from the smell. To apply I usually use a bodkin or a small paperclip straightened out and filed to a point or even an exacto blade.
forgive me, I don’t tie a lot of trout flies. where the hell is the epoxy on that pattern? I just ask because there is a big difference in mixing epoxy for a fly head and mixing/applying it to other places…
8888, it’s most likely on the shell back or wing case, duh. Why the 8888 would you epoxy on fly head instead of using some gloss head cement in multiple coats (see previous threads) it will penetrate your thread better than epoxy. Unless your gluing eyes on.
Jeremy,
I’m not familiar with that particular pattern, but there ae some ‘epoxy basics’ that will help whenever you want to use this stuff on flies:
1).Measure carefully and Mix thouroughly. All two part epoxies have a bit of ‘slop room’ when it come to the exact portions, but the closer you get to ‘equal parts’ the better. Mix the epoxy until it is all the same color and transparency…those little ‘swirls’ are unmixed product and can adversely effect the cure. Don’t mix with wood unless you don’t mind the discoloration.
2). Use sparingly. Most epoxies are ‘self leveling’. Make sure to apply enough to ‘wet’ all the areas you want covered, then take off as much as you can. This makes for a much nicer looking finish without unsightly blobs or bulges, and keeps overruns down to a minimum.
3). The ‘5’ in 5 minute epoxy is the initial cure time. The useable work time is much less than that, and varies with how long it took you mix it, ambient temperature, and thickness you are applying. Take this into consideration if you are trying to apply to multiple flies.
4). Longer cure time epoxy glues are NOT always clearer than the 5 minute stuff. It varies by brand, but almost ALL epoxy ‘glues’ will yellow over time. If you need or want non yellowing epoxies, buy the stuff made for rodbuilding that says it doesn’t yellow.
5). You can extend working time a little by thinning the epoxy with Lacquer Thinner or Acetone. This helps make ‘glues’ into easier to use ‘coatings’. Don’t use too much thinner.
6). For coating bodies that you want smooth and symetrical, a ‘fly turner’ is a big help if you want to do more than one fly at a time. This allows you to use better quality epoxy coatings than the quick cure glues. There are instructions here on this site on how to make your own from a variety of products, and many companies sell them already made.
7). Use a rotary vise to keep a fly rotating until the 5 minute stuff has ‘set’. If you don’t have a rotary vise, use a set of forceps and turn it by hand.
8). Judicious use of heat can help correct some problems like bulges or sags if you get to it early before the stuff has set. A lighter or alcohol burner flame passd under a turning fly from a safe distance will briefly liquifly the epoxy.
9). Don’t use too much epoxy. It’s a repeat, but it is certainly the most common mistake made with this stuff and bears repeating.
This is enough to keep you away from the worst pitfalls. Remember that, like any skill, applying coatings like epoxy requires a bit of practice to become adept at it.
Good Luck!
Buddy
Usually you will want an epoxy that dries clear. Check the package as it typically indicates the color when dry. I have some Loctite 5 minute epoxy on my workbench right now that has a yellow/amber tint when dry. I think the package said it dried yellow. I have seen Loctite and other brands of epoxy that dry in similar shades or even opaque. You would not want this for most fly patterns.
I’ve been using Clear Cure Goo as an epoxy replacement (uses UV light to cure it), and I’ve found it to be extremely easy to work with, and cures clear (as the name suggests). Will it yellow over time? Only time will tell, none of the flies I’ve tied in the last 6 months have yellowed yet.
I looked online and couldn’t find a picture showing the epoxy on that pattern. My point was that if he is just starting out with limited equipment (beginners only swap) then he may not have access to a turner and therefore might be better off with a glue that cures faster. I know that it can be a real pain turning single flies on a rotary vise to try to get the epoxy to stay where you want it. the other thing is that if he doesn’t have a rotary or a turner and it is just on the shell back or wing case he could use his toothpick to moisten the materials in the spot he wants the epoxy with a very thin coat of the stuff, give the glue time to set up just a bit so that it won’t run as much, then quickly put his little drops on for the wing cases. the first little drop will adhere to the materials and the glue should bond to itself without issue.
Oh, and epoxy adds a little bit of weight in the front of a pattern and helps to give bait fish patterns that fishy transparent look. It can be colored with glitter if you choose, can be given different shapes depending on the desired action of the fly in the water, and is damned hard for anything with teeth to bite through. Thats all of the reasons that I can think of off the top of my head.
It appears the epoxy is on the shellback, one of the photos showed a very shiny shellback.
Look here (enlarge pic). You can see where the epoxy goes. You can also go to the website and click the tutorial to see how to put it on
[u]http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/uploads/DSCN5974.jpg[/u]
![http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/uploads/DSCN5974.jpg[/u]](http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/uploads/DSCN5974.jpg%5B/u%5D){kind=link}
Mr. Hughfish, it just seemed like you were talking down to a beginning tier, because YOU didn’t see where it went. Dumb bell eyes add weight to the bait fish patterns as well and I do see your point about epoxy for a bait fish pattern but here he is referring to a stonefly. Not what you tie.
there is a lot of information on here, thank you. I am not necessarily a beginner tier but definitely not an accomplished one like some of you. I have never done a swap before so that made me eligible for this one. I have patterns that I am comfortable with and tie often due to my use of them and then there are patterns that I am interested in but have little use for. this pattern was of the latter. since being in the Army and moving away from Idaho I have not had much use for stone fly patterns. I have wanted to tie this one for a while and used the swap as the reason to try it out. I have never tied an epoxy fly and am learning much from your answers to this thread. the epoxy was for the wing case on the nymph. I think that most came out OK but I could have done better with some of these tips. thank you and if there are any more tips out there I am sure open to hearing them as I am sure others are too. thanks
one more thing, I had not thought about what epoxy would do for a bait fish pattern. I do tie streamer patterns but mainly for smallies and some pike. have to do some more experimenting and thinking.
maodiver, thanks for the link. not sure what i did different with the epoxy but it did not apply as easy as it sounds in the tutorial on your link but now I have an area to look at for errors.
I’ve been wantin to try some Flex coat that is used for building or coatin or Rod Building but keep forgettin to get some.
I bet it would stay clear
no, I was more than a little frustrated because I couldn’t find a picture of that pattern that showed any view of the epoxy. I am far too close to a beginning tier myself to ever talk down to one. Thats why I started off by saying that I don’t tie many trout flies, because I figured that it was a simple question for those that knew the pattern. I suspected that it was on the shell back but couldn’t find a pic to confirm it. the one pic I did see that I thought might have had epoxy looked like it had a clear substance around the hook at the butt of the fly. That was why I asked because if the epoxy would have been there (around the hook shank) then what advice i had would have been completely different. sorry for the misunderstanding