I have hosted swaps on another site and I have participated in many swaps here on FAOL. As the swap host I stick to the due date and if flies are received after the due date they go back to the tier. There is no sense having a due date if I extend it waiting for late flies. Swap hosts give us ample time to tie and I do not join if I do not plan to have them in ahead of the due date. I consider the “flies must arrive no later than…” to be a business agreement. Once I had to ask out of a swap because I was so ill for a long while. I felt bad about that but there was nothing to be done about it. I expect there are other valid reasons, but for most of us most of the time the due date is there for a reason.
Well said, and I couldn’t agree more.
There always seems to be someone who doesn’t make it. Sometimes with good reasons, sometimes not. I am one of those willing to cut some slack on the dates, but I am going to become more strict from here on out. Last swap I had only 1 late (the best performance I’ve had for a while), 2 with no toe tags, and 2 without return postage. The instructions aren’t that complicated, and I’m going to be returning more flies to senders in the future. In all fairness, I will be very specific in the future in the signups as well in regards to following instructions. It might scare away some swappers, but hopefully it will make things a bit more reliable and fair for the majority of tyers who are prompt with their submissions.
I for one…always try to be early. In the swaps I’ve hosted on other sites there always seems to be someone who is late…sometimes for good reason…I try as long as they communicate with me to accommodate. I understand things come up and maybe a better solution when things come is communicate not only with the host but the members of the swap…As I’ve said I always try to be early just because you never know what might come up…it might be better to drop out than to be overly late…just my 2 cents
I too usually always tried to be early with my swaps I have joined and have always encoraged swappers to get flys in early in my swaps. It makes things go alot smoother for the swapmiester, and being late while it may not look like too big of deal can really delay a swap going out if there are a few flies short in a swap. Also Swapmiesters may have set due dates for a reason around thier personal lives. Swaps take alot of ones time if things don’t run smoothly. THings like questions about swaps (while I have no problem helping the newbee) that have been stated in the swap instructions or can be answered by your local postoffice take time, organizing flys takes time, sorting flys takes time, addressing envelopes that have not been properly addressed takes more time.
These things coupled with delays recieving flies from swapers can contribute significatly to delaying a swap going out. Things happen thats a part of life, and delays do happen for good reasons at times.
I have always been willing to wait for the late arrivals but now myself have been put in the position that I will no longer let a swap go past due for the straglers. I have had a very confusing, disorganized month trying to wrangle 4 swaps to a close, due to late arrivals and a busy work schedual beeing more than expected.
It’s been a great winter of swaps for me and I definatly will be in for more in the fall, and I definatly have some things I will be changing with my swaps, and still have some good ones planned for the fall.
-Hillard
I don’t join swaps unless I can get the flies tied within two weeks.
That is what works for me.
As for the return labels, I always include one of my own so the swapmeister does not have to do that.
The rest of may rant about swapping is inthe panfish archives.
Rick
I conduct and enter a fair number of swaps. I have even given my suggestions for what they are worth on how to be a swap host and how to be a swap participant. When I enter a swap or conduct a swap. I try to have my flies tied and ready in a couple of days. But not everyone does this. In my opinion if you join a swap it is a commitment and a promise that you will follow the instructions given for the swap. We all know things can happen in live that will come before swaps. But these things should not stop you from communicating. If something happens to delay you communicate with the swap host or the swappers so every one knows what is going on. Also do not enter a swap unless you know you can finish and get your flies in in the allotted time. There was once a swapper that critisized me for being early getting my flies in on a swap. All I can say is he did not have to wait on my flies to get in for the swap to be completed. Swaps should be fun and informative. Just my 2 cents. John
:shock: You’ve gotta be kidding. That takes a lot of nerve.
John, you’re always the guy who signs up first, and has flies submitted on time and according to instructions. If everone were as prompt, you’d see world record swap turnarounds.
I have hosted a few swaps myself and agree with all said above. When you join a swap you are making a commitment to the swapmaster and all participants that you will have your flies on time. If someone will communicate with me I will hold off past the due date awhile to get all the flies in the swap. I quit joining or hosting swaps due to the fact it is spring and I live on a small farm and can not uphold my commitments on the swaps. return labels are a must also. One thing I learned the hard way was when swapping make sure you have enough postage to make it back. I was in a swap which bassman was hosting and when I got the envelope back there was a stamp on the envelope that said I was 4 cents short on postage which bassman had paid for me. I alway now tell them to put the next higest postage on the envelopes for the returns.
Swaps should be fun and exciting. As many as I have been in I still get excited when they are due to be returned. My hat is off to all the swap masters who work very hard to make the swap happen. Behind the scene the swap master is checking and updating the post dailey. Storing the flies as they come in and making sure they are all there. Updating the swappers. Then when the big day comes sorting and repacking flies for all the swapers. Then it is oof to the post office to mail them all.
I have been in swaps with all the swap masters here and they are the cream of the crop and when I get back to joining swaps again I will be looking for their swaps first.
John I was in that swap…what difference does it make if you’re early? as long as you aren’t late…that is the key.
Again, communication with host and swappers is the key if things arise.
Isn’t it cool that we have so many new swapmeisters? I remember not too long ago when there just wasn’t that many going on, and we had folks complaining that they couldn’t get signed up before swaps filled. I’m glad to see all the new participants, and seeing swap signups taking longer to fill than just a few hours.
I did a quick check, and FAOL has approximately 24 swaps that have had posts within the last week. What a phenominal number! And considering that the majority of the swappers are prompt and pay attention to the details, that speaks volumes about the quality of our swapping community here.
I’m not really trying to change the subject; I’m just making sure no one thinks I’m complaining about anyone in particular. The bottom line is that this is the best (IMO) swapping area around. I would challenge anyone to find a more active and freindly swapping environment anywhere.
I don’t care about being critisized about being early. I will always try to be early.
I too have seen folks post that swaps fill up to fast for them to get into. This does happen some times. But if they look at the board right now there are at least 5 swaps thay have been up for a while that are not full yet.
Signing up early is just like getting your flies in early. It makes it easier for the Swapmeister to conduct the swap. It makes it better for the Swappers in that they get there flies back on time and some of the times they will get them back early.
I have been in swaps with just about everyone that has posted on this and I have to say you are all great swappers and Swapmeisters. It is a pleasure to be in a swap with any of you. John
Bassman said:
"The most important thing I consider in being in a swap is have fun, be patient and communicate, ask for help when you need it.
"Here are some helpful things to consider when joining or hosting a swap.
"These are suggestions(emphasis mine), that will help Swapmeisters and tiers to have a pleasureable swap and a good time."
I appreciate your frustration with latecomers. I just recently pushed a swap close to the deadline mailing 8-9 days before the due date. Mea culpa! On the other hand, in that particular swap, the swappers are cutting some slack for the meister while he finishes up a paper due before the swap deadline. I am glad to say none of the swappers seems to be having a problem with that delay. The sword cuts both ways, it seems. Anyway I can wait for the other 11 flies. I have 100s more that I can use.
One thing I appreciate even less than waiting, however, is having a suggestion get promoted to a rule after I sign up for something. At least twice, including the quotation above, bassman makes it clear that he is making suggestions about swaps. That, IMHO, is the way to do it. It leave the swapmeister free cut slack or not. But that also leaves it incumbent on the swapmeister to lay down his rules ahead of time. In the USA we have an Consittutional prohibition of ex post facto laws. Bassman points out that the key is communication-before, during, and after. So let the masters communicate their expectations up front, and let the swappers commit with their eyes wide open as to what is expected and what the consequences are if one fails.
In short, there is a big difference between 10 Commandments and 10 Sugggestions. The rules always have to be tough in the Major Leagues; in Little League we always cut some slack. Dead seriousness has its place, but I am in this for “a pleasureable swap and a good time.” I have enough strict rules at work that I do not need to take on more in my hobby. Nor do I want to.
Have fun, right?
Im not the one to talk here… I myself have fell into the late flies a few times… I had to drop a coulpe swap…
and in one case flies never showed up…
lost in the mail?
I wrote the wrong addy? Dont know!!
As most of you my have noticed I have stopped doing swaps…
Mostly to let some of the new guys jump in there…
so for all the New swappers… HAVE FUN … these guys are great…
Leonard
I still keep a watch on the swaps, Although I have to admit…To being one who has pretty much stopped swaping…Join one now and again on rare occasion though…Such as Ol’blues curret assist to a fellow flinger’s plight…Those are sitting on my desk beside me and are going out tommorow btw… Mixed bag of the gotta hav’ems…Gotta say I can see why a few swaper’s have gotten a bit taken aback as to weather they want to keep in the game…Due dates are due dates…
Search this site on the word “swap.” The first hit will be Swaps And Meistering by Rich Z. (Richard Zieger) Rich does an excellent job of lining up what has to be done both by swappers and by meisters to make a successful swap. The idea of setting up a group for e-Mailing is just one of several excellent ideas. It serves to notify everyone how the swap is going and it reminds the immobile to get moving. Rish has a good practical outlook on the level of performance to expect and how to meister a good swap.
“Tardiness” is a result of the inputs into the process. If it was a sport and your team came in a day late and a dollar short, some folks would just cry in their beer about it. Others, like sports analysts and the teams front office, would be all over it critiquing players and management and doping out what to do next season. Swappers are the players; meisters are the management. Rich has done an excellent job of analysis. You owe it to yourself to read the whole article if you want to understand the nature of swaps better. You mayl also learn something more about human nature.
Well I tried searching for the post but I came up empty no matter what I tried. How about posting a link?