I have been thinking that I may want to try tying some Elk Hare Caddis in 12 - 16. Uo to this point I have not tied any dry flys.
So here is my question. What hackle should I look at that won’t break the bank. I see some advertised as Grade 1, 2 & 3. I have seen some grade #3 1/2 necks for around $25. And yes I have check out some of the sponsors websites, but I am an old rookie when it comes to this stuff.
So without laboring me with allot of suggestions, would some of you tell me what I should be looking for and where?
AD,
You might want to try out the “100’s” packages. Not a whole lot invested ($10-12), you can tie upwards of 100 flies from one package, and they are available in specific sizes, so you don’t have lots of waste.
Betty
Dave,
If you need the hackle for those flies only, take a look at the Whiting 100 packs. They are sized, so you can buy #12, #14 and #16 packs.
These packs will give you top hackle that’s very easy to work with, at a reasonable price (abt. $12 a pack).
If you think you’ll use hackle more often, a cape or neck may be a good choice. In that case there are a lot of options.
Mart
When you buy the hackle do not buy size #12 for a size #12 hook buy a size #14. You size Elk Hair Caddis hackle one size smaller than the hook size. That was taught to me by Al Troth. Ron
Unless I missed something, you said you’re going to tie sizes 12, 14 and 16. That means, assuming you want to follow the hackle sizing mentioned by RonMT, you’re going to need sizes 14, 16 and 18. Actually, I thought the hackle ribbing was one size smaller but the neck hackle was a true size. That would mean 4 different sizes of 100 packs! Anyway, you’re going to need at least 3 sizes of hackle. For my money a good quality neck is a better investment than several packs of the Whiting 100’s. Okay, there are less feathers per size, but you get a greater range of sizes plus feathers from which you can get tailing material as well as possibly winging material. Aside from Whiting(most expensive), I’d recommend Conranch and Collins Hackle. Both offer excellent quality and with Collins’ necks you get the saddle at no additional cost.
If you are just starting to get into tying dries, then look to get brown hackles and grizzle hackles. Basically, with those two you cover a large range of patterns. Elk hair caddis is a very good pattern to start with, and I’ve had lots of luck with one. I’ve also done well with Wickham’s Fancy, which is another good palmered dry fly, in similar size ranges. (tail: brown fibers, body: flat gold tinsel; hackle: brown/reddish brown palmered up the body; rib: fine gold wire counter wrapped to hackle; wings: pheasant tail fibers or turkey tail). This floats nice and high on the water. The wings can be tied in low along the body or upright, like a mayfly. I’ve had trout take it when cicada or caddis are around, and even when nothing in particular seemed to be happening.
Allen In truth the hackle size for a true EHC as per Al Troth is the hackle should just touch the hooks point. And yes he will spend the time to size all the hackle to meet that size. He is one picky person when it comes to tying but he is also one of the best I have ever seen.
Were most people will dye half a neck to get the color they need for an order he will select just the number of feathers he needs for an order and dye them after he has sized them all.
I have one of his old catalogs that he took all the picture’s for and every fly in it is near perfect. As are all of his flies. One picky person for sure. Ron
PS: I gave the one size smaller as it is as close as I feel you need be. Not Al though. LOL
Regardless, for 3 sizes of flies, Anglerdave will still need 3 sizes of hackle and I still believe that a neck is the way to go unless you’re tying commercially. Even in that case, if we’re talking about Whiting specifically, a 1/2 saddle or whole saddle is the better buy than the 100 pack. Just MHO.
Allen I was in no way disagreeing with what you said just explaining what I said about sizing.
I buy and use Whiting Saddles for about 90 percent of my dryfly tying. I buy wholesale and buy a lot of them. Like you say for commercial tied flies it is the best way to go. I do own a lot of capes. But I find that saddles work the best bet for me. I tie a lot of small flies for spring creek style of fishing so I buy whole midge saddle a lot. I do use a cape now and then though. Ron
Didn’t mean to imply and I didn’t read into your post any disagreement. I do have a question for you that I think with your experience you’ll be able to answer. Do you think that the hackle collar on a dry fly tied with saddle hackle looks the same as one tied with neck hackle?
Allen. No I do not. They are different. But you do the best you can when tying for a living. If I were tying old style Catskill Flies I would use capes but for everyday flies I do not believe there is a thing wrong with saddles and how the fly fishes and look’s. It is kind of like flies tied with calftail and calf body hair wings. Both work well but some like the calftail wing look better than the calf body hair. Just what you like I guess. For the money and the ammount of flies I get out of a saddle I will go with the saddle and I have yet to have a customer say anything to me about the flies they get or the hackle used. Ron
In truth the hackle size for a true EHC as per Al Troth is the hackle should just touch the hooks point.
Al sent me a sample Elk Hair Caddis to photograph for my web site. Because Al selected this sample for display, I have to assume it features the proportions he likes. As you can see, the body hackle has barbs longer than you mention. Does it look correctly proportioned in your eyes?
Hans’ I use to talk to Al in the winter time over the phone. (Before Computer’s) Just saying hey and so on. When asked he told me that he normally tie’s the EHC so that the hackle just brushes the hooks point. That was back in the early 80’s. So I do not know what is going on now day’s as I have not talked to him in sometime. He was sick and so was I. You just kind of lose touch with someone at time’s. I know I use to buy my gold wire from him. He had it made special and it was the best at the time. I also bought some of his tree stands for hunting and my son still uses them.
Are you sure Al tied the fly or maybe his son did it? Even if he tied it thing’s change and so do the way people do thing’s. Just saying what I was told many moon’s ago. If I am wrong now so be it. Been wrong before. Nothing new there LOL Ron
PS- Looking at that fly makes the way I said to tie it the first time just about right LOL One size of hackle smaller than normal.
Since JC isn’t here to say it, I will say it for him. Give Denny a call at Conranch Hackle. He’s a sponsor of FAOL. If you are going to buy three packs of Whiting 100’s, that will run you between $36-$45. You can get a #2 cape for that price or a #3 for considerably less. As Denny will tell you all his hackle grades are dry fly quality and price relates more to feather count and hackle size (#20-#28 being more expensive). His hackle is also very resistent to twisting. Give Denny a call, tell him what you need and it will be in your hands in three or four days. Try it, you’ll like it----a lot. 8T
The sample was supplied by Al directly to me, indicating it was tied by himself, not his sone or any other tier.
Between the early sixties and today there have been subtle changes in the Elk Hair Caddis as tied by Al. Subtle changes over several decades may result in significant visual or functional shifts. One of the noticable differences between early Elk Hair Caddis and the 200x version is a much shrunk head. Where in the early days the hair butts were left fairly long, modern version have the stubs sliced very close with a sharp razor blade, as shown in the sample I posted.
Likewise the hackle barb length may have changed over time.
Nothing like a picture at 200X to put things in perspective :shock:
It sure looks like it it would land everyway but wing up doesn’t it? I would think that a shorter hackle might encourage a wing up attitude. Have you thrown this into a bowl of water ?
This is beginning to sound way too complicated. I think I might be better off just buying my flies, in the sizes that I need, when I need them, instead of tying them.
Doesn’t have to be complicated. To get a feel for it, just tie up flies in one size (say, 14). Buy dry fly hackles, but spend no more than you feel you want to spend. Don’t worry about price per feather right now. After you’ve used up those feathers, if you decide you want to tie more, and in multiple sizes, then consider saving up for a cape. That will provide you with more than enough feathers and in a wide range of sizes. Again, make sure the cape is one that is suitable for dry flies. They are more expensive, but the feathers from a wet fly cape are soft and webby (help the fly sink), while dry fly feathers are stiffer and help the fly float.
Ron
Ron
