I’m a dry Fly kind of guy. I’v had the debate in my head for along time if wings count or not. So I’m just gonna tye up some without wings and see. color and def. size of fly seem to matter alot. I would like you guys input on wings or not. I know its an old topic, beat to death over the years, but I would like to here the latest of you guys thoughts on it… Does it or dont it matter about the wings?
i plan to start tyin’ in more wings- not so much because i think they will work better- but more that i have not done it in the past and just want to tie some up w/ wings…
i dont expect them to fish much different- less maybe small situational windows with certain lighting etc… do report on your findings!
I tie far more without wings these days, than I did years ago. I also V-notch the bottom of many more patterns now. Go with what catches fish.
I usually use some sort of wing, more to allow me to spot the fly than fool the fish. Look at Harry Murray’s Mr. Rapidan - yellow calf tail wings on a fly he originally tied for the Quill Gordon hatch; I’ve never seen a quill gordon with anything but grey wings but that fly works anyway. If I can’t see them, I can’t fish them as effectively. The Viz-a-duns I tie for the epeorus hatch on the Madison have wings of light grey Congo hair which is a close proximation to the natural and still pretty visible to me, or black for those flat-light situations at dusk when the water goes silver and it’s hard for me to see much of anything. Fish don’t seem to care one way or another.
Regards,
Scott
It seems the silhouette makes a difference, more than the color, IMO&E. I like tying wings simply because it really is easy in the grand scheme of things and looks better. The fact they help you see the fly on the water should seal the deal.
Last year I taught an older tyer how to tie wings… He was amazed that something he had strenuously avoided for years was that simple. To his defense we do not fish that many dries here, aside from grayling fishing…
I have known fish to take winged flies in preference to similar unwinged patterns. The sun was strong but low in the sky. I would theorise that the wings of the natural cast a shadow onto the water which was at that time a significant trigger factor to the fish. Of course this is really no better than a guess and has only happened to me once. However, sometimes wings can make a difference.
Cheers,
C.
Grubb,
You ask, "Does it or dont it matter about the wings? " Allow this question - To we tyers or to the fish?
Personally, I think that wings on dry flies add some overall realism, wings of flank(especially wood duck) make the fly buggy with an illusion of movement, add an effect of daintiness, and just give the fly an overall look of elegance. Also makes the fly a little easier for us to see. Does it matter from the fishes point of view and are fish more attracted to flies with v without wings? I think that depends on who you’ve read or who you ask. Marinaro was in the ‘definitely matters’ camp as were most Catskill fly tyers. There are others who think not. There are also tyers who just don’t like tying wings so they justify their displeasure by saying, ‘the wings aren’t needed’. However, and this is based on my personal observation nothing scientific, I think that spent wings on mayfly ‘spinners’ are important because of the wing position on the water. Maybe not so with ‘duns’(?). Like I said, I prefer wings but I’ve nothing to base the overall importance insofar as actual fishing.
This probably hasn’t answered your question but I think you knew that it could not be answered and thatit’s a personal thing.
What do you think?
Allan
Have seen the same thing as AlanB. Definitely are times when winged patterns are more effective. Easier to just tie them in and not worry about it in my mind.
I wonder how much realism really plays in the equation when, no matter how lifelike the fly looks, there’s a piece of curved iron with a sharp point sticking out of it’s butt in plain view of the fish.
Regards,
Scott
It pretty much comes down to the answer to the question is the investment in time and effort going to result in me catching more fish or maybe being able to see the fly while I am fishing it. The other thing would be a fly for display, for fishing I use what I call a “Almost an Adams” it doesn’t have wings or brown hackle, the fish don’t seem to mind or at least I don’t think they do. If I were tying an Adams for display or teaching someone, I would want it to have all of the ingredients listed in the traditional recipe.
Scott,
I firmly believe that trout (most fish) rely on positive “triggers” more than negative ones. I really think that is why, even in the slickest water, they can be enticed to strike a dressed hook.
Byron
Grubb,
Tie a few with and a few without and let the fish decide!
Z
I don’t think wings make a lot of difference on traditional hackled mayflies. Then again, I don’t tie those any more, and tie CDC flies without any hackle, and a wing to keep them up, so…
What Z said.
I think a LARGE part of fly success is the angler’s faith in what he or she is using. I KNOW some of my patterns work well, and others don’t do well at all with them.
I feel that some patterns are more subject to the wing profile than others. Obviously the downwing patterns have a distinct profile that needs the wing in place. Others such as some of the Catskill patterns I feel need the split wing style winging almost as outriggers, to keep the pattern from listing more than about 45deg while in drift, if for no other purpose but for tradition. But if one looks at other popular styles such as a thorax pattern (which I love)?..the wing really has a very low profile. In that case, I think the “footprint” on the surface film is the trigger, and the wing provides more visibility for the angler than anything. Much the same with many parachute patterns that are often tied with very short wing posts. Can it make a difference? I am sure, and have experienced times when it seemed to matter greatly, and then others when it seemed to not matter at all. Slick vs broken water can make the difference as well. As can time of day, sun glare, shadows…etc.
A lot depends on whether by wings you mean those things we tie on flies to represent wings or the impression of wings. For example, a simple hackle dry fly has no technical wings, but the upright hackle certainly represents wings. So, most “wingless” dries actually have wings, or at least material that looks like wings to the fish. A truly wingless dry would be something like a traditional trimmed wing spinner fly with only a few hackle barbs on either side left to represent legs.
That is what is needed! More research.
I am starting to lean back in favor of wings helping, especially when I sink a dry at the end of the drift and fish it back as a wet. Maybe there is something to the thoughts on the UV reflectivity of white wings, after all. Now I need to order several packages of Hi-Viz. I don’t think it is carried, locally.
Ed
I tie wings only because that’s how I learned, now when I tried some 18-20’s I bought JV hackle from Denny. I don’t use many that size so usually any thing smaller than a 14 doesn’t get wings - I lose em fast enough anyway LOL
My view is that wings are important, otherwise we could use down wing flies like a caddis during a mayfly hatch and it would be equally effect. Similarly, use a upright winged mayfly pattern during a caddis hatch and see if it as effective.
The fact that we use down wings for caddis and up winged patterns for mayflies pretty much puts the debate to rest as to whether wings are important or not. Similarly, try fishing a caddis dry pattern during a mayfly spinner fall and see how many fish you take vs using a spent winged spinner pattern.
Basically the question really is a way of asking how selective the fish are. If they are not selective but opportunistic, the wing shape won’t matter much since the fish are sampling the drift. But when there is a hatch and the fish are selective, wings do matter.
Selectivity is population based behavior. It is not all or none behavior, and the population changes gradually. If the hatch is heavy and prolonged enough, most of the fish; but probably not all, will be selective and wings will matter. If we graph the population for selectivity to wings, we can simulate it with a bell curve. The will curve shifts to the right (blue to pink) for selectivity as they population gets selective.
The shape may also change. A broad based bell curve would indicate a population that is widely spread with a large degree of variation (wide standard deviation) on what they will take. As selectivity develops the population may become more tightly grouped (blue to red) , the peak of the mean gets higher and the standard deviation is more tightly grouped around the mean.
When the fish are mostly selective and wings do matter, you will need the wings to catch those fish and the winged version will catch as many of the non-selective fish as the non winged version. So what’s the downside of imitating the wing?
There is none.
In my neck o’ the woods, I believe wings make a difference, so almost all the dries I tie have wings. A very wise flyfisherman friend once postulated “The wing brings 'em up, and the body color takes 'em.”, and I agree. I usually fish on heavily-pounded streams…so it isn’t so much about the hunk of iron hanging off, but moreso the fishies’ trigger being initially twitched because of the wing silhouette (or the body impression on the water if a cripple or emerger in the film). But to clarify, I seldom use duck quills, nor do I use Catskill-type dry flies. I just don’t like taking the time for tying those wings. For slower water, I use flies with “comparadun-type” wings. For quicker water, I use “hairwing dun & emerger-type wings”. I always use some sort of wing on all my spinner patterns -usually darlon, zelon, or poly. Also of note - - -I fish alot of dry midges… I seldom put wings on flies of size 26 or smaller, even the spinners. BTW, I call everything smaller than a sz. 26 a “B52” (bug, size 52) ;).
And one last thought…I’ve fished in sw Montana and sw Colorado for a couple weeks each year for the last 20 or so years, and I don’t see wings on emergers, dries and spinners as being that important to the fishies. Not so on the San Juan, though! (that oughta raise some discussion…)
Your mileage may vary…