I’m interested in this because recently a casting instructor took a quick look at my “doublehaul” and said I was doublehauling on the forward cast but only single hauling on the backcast…meaning I was not feeding line on the backcast.
In another thread [which seems to be going sideways] I brought this up but it seems better to do a fresh thread.
Is it correct that when we are referring to the doublehaul there are really four motions involved?
If someone says they do a single haul in the backcast does that include feeding line?
I know some of you are thinking or will say who the h cares…but I think to discuss something we need to be on the same page.
Someone once told me…“To intelligently discuss something we need to define our terms”.
I ain’t the master but I feel and have been taught that a double haul is when you haul on both the forward and the back cast. A single haul is just one or the other like when casting into a strong head or tail wind.
Feeding the line back to me is just part of the complete haul.
While, I’m not the master either, I agree with Jackster. Feeding the line back through is just part of the “haul” in my eyes. If you aren’t feeding it back through, then there really isn’t any point in pulling it down. Yea, you might get the line moving quicker, but you wouldn’t be adding any distance if you didn’t feed the line back out.
Not being the master, but a mear bumbling fool that loves to chime in where he does not belong,
You haul on your forward cast AND your back cast to make a double haul.
You haul on your forward cast OR your back cast and it is a sinle haul.
Think of the sailors (or in our case Pirates) language. you haul on a line to bring it tight, haul = pull. You release or slack off a line to give it slack.
Another thought. If you “haul” on the line on your backcast and then don’t “slack” or feed the line back up by moving your linehand up, then how do you pull or “haul” again when starting the forward cast?? The physics just don’t work. If you’ve hauled on your backcast or pulled on the line and your line hand stays down by your waist, how do you pull again on the forward cast? Does that make sense?
wild by making very short hauls . The real reason for a single haul into say a backcast is if the wind is very strong at your back. The back cast in this instance may just be able to staighten out. If you feed extra line you would just be creating slack.
Two single hauls does not make a double haul
Nice to know I’m still capable of being confused this easily…
Let me see if I get this,
You pull on the line to ‘haul’ it at the appropriate moment in the back cast. THEN, you feed line out creating slack and defeating the purpose of the pull in the first place. Next, you pull on the line to haul it at the appropriate moment on the forward cast, and then feed line out, but there it’s needed ???
I long for days when ‘Haul’ was either moving something (more than a tote, lots more than a simple fetch…) or going really really fast in your car/truck/boat…usually followed by the crass reference to ones posterior…
Isn’t the real purpose of the oddly named double haul to increase line speed and add distance while lessening percieved work?
I could be way wrong, I’m still a bit befuddled (really LIKE that word) this early in the morning…
as was explained to me by a FFF master instructor candidate and good buddy of mine, the action of “hauling” and then feeding line on either the forward cast or back cast, counts as a single haul. If you do a single haul on both the forward cast AND the backcast, you now have a double-haul. But again…I’m not the master, so…
The nomenclature has indeed gotten buggered up on the web. Ducksterman’s instructor and more importantly Joan Wulff ( one of the premier casting instructors)define a single haul as a tug without feeding the tugged line back into the cast. In ducksterman’s case the instructor was trying to get Ducksterman to feed the hauled line into his back cast. A single haul that does not feed line into the cast is used specifically in the situation I described above. A double haul stroke consists of hauling and feeding the hauled line back into the cast and is done on both the forward and back cast. Half of a double haul is not a single haul and 2 single hauls front and back are not a double haul at least not in casting launguage
Ummmmm, let’s see. If feeding the slack back into a haul on the back cast so you can haul on the front cast constitutes a double haul on the back cast, then if you haul and release on the front cast you have a threeple haul and if you false cast and feed line back in so you can haul again on the back cast you have a fourple haul. It’s all so confusing. I have an idea. How about we just count the pulls per cast. Then a double haul would be if you haulled on both front and backcast. Ya think? Where oh where is the master?
Bobinmich actually hauling and feeding line into the backcast is 1/2 a double haul. Hauling and feeding line into the foreward cast is the other 1/2 of the double haul.
Try these as related to Paul Arden 's description of a back cast and forwad cast using a double haul (hauling during the power stroke)
haul into the backcast (hands are now apart) feed line into the backcast ( hands are now together) haul into the forward cast( hands are now apart)
On single haul into the backcast( wind strongly into your back) You make a short haul into the backcast and do not let you hands come together( ie do not feed line into the backcast) On the Forward cast you can haul by moving your hands further apart. Stop high and shoot line into you forward cast. You have hauled twice but the backcast by definition was a single haul.
Most people could probaly care less but at least at one time this casting language was the standard
Yup, by George I think we got it. I would have hated to have to fourple haul. And all this without the master. I love it when he let’s us figure things out for ourselves.
Now I understand your question to me. I wish you had gone into more detail like you did here. I wasn’t sure what you were asking me.
I would have said that yes I consider feeding the line back in as part of the single haul. Although as noted in this thread. It doesn’t have to be. In my case I was training for the double haul, so feeding the line back in had to be done.
For the record I love casting with no haul at all. It seems more relaxed and smooth. What’s even more fun are side arm casts. You can watch the flow of the loops. Candy to my eyes.
I put a little haul into almost every cast I make. I feel it gives me more control.
I tried casting once with the line under my rod hand (no haul). I found it much more difficult to get any line speed, I had less control over my loops and I lost contact with the line more often.
The experience showed me what a beginner is up against…no wonder they have poorly shaped loops, lack any distance and little control over the distance they do have.
I still hold the line in my left hand to feed in line. I have to feed/shoot a little line to straighten the leader. I guess I do haul a bit on the backcast to get the line off the water. I do it slow though and i’m not trying to add any distance. I think I do it without thinking about it.
Great Ceaser ghost, I refuse to belive that in all the relm of the english language that fly fishermen are allowing themselves to be stooped by four letter words, yet again.
First its not casting, your not throwing a lure in the conventonal sense. Your ‘drawing’ a line either off the water or thru the air for the purpose of projecting the line along a decided path. In order for this to be a satisfieing endevor you need first and foremost, loop control. Defined as the ablity to form and project a loop of flyline, with such purpose as to cause it to follow an imaginary line of flight, either fore or aft of your profile. Loop control encompases, but is not limited to the shapeing of by purpose, the decideing upon force to be applied and the speed of nessessity. Couple that with an understanding of, compression of energy raises efficency of effort and you have the beginings of basic loop control. Putting it in other terms. The smaller the loop the higher the effiency. This point is very important due to the common situation many encounter, that of slack in the line betwen the line hand and the stripping guide upon the execusion of the rearward projection. If such slack is manifesting itself, chances are your loop is too large. Thus lacking the needed energy to draw the line taught to your line hand, robbing you of needed control to perform properly, creating a distraction and a fustration. When done correctly the “double haul” is in reality more closely a “double draw” and in a mannor of speaking a “redraw”. If you consider the action line of, you draw and project the line imparting the energy to cause the line to redraw back up threw the rod. This will feel almost as if the line were drawing your hand back to your starting relation point to the rod. You pause as the line rolls out behind you and just as or just befor, (depending on your personal reaction time and other factors) the line comes stright (leader included), you begin the forward presentation movement of the rod. It is at this time you may again begin to draw the line (with the line hand) in concert with your rod hand. Takeing care to balance the added power of both the drawing of the line and the effort multipling effects of the rod. Energy added by the line hand (the draw) must be balanced against a reduction of power applied to the rod. Note too,there are as many different ways to double haul as there are people useing it. No one way, is the “only” way in this game. Shucks and you thought them other fellas was confuseing. 8) Capt. Paul Darby
