Let’s say you’re tying a dry fly with the hackle wrapped in the same fashion as a traditional Catskill dry (not a parachute style dry). Do you incorporate wings, or just use hackle?
Are the wings necessary, or are they more important to the tier than they are to the trout?
Andrew
Simulations of what a trout see’s don’t show much of a wing. So…if I can get away without.
They all fit the definition of “lure” anyway.
Andrew;
I’m going to cross the line here and say no! Wings are a pain and time consuming and the fish can’t see 'em anyway. I think that they are important only to the tiers ego and that the trout don’t care! I could tie 3 - 4 fly’s in the time it takes me to tie in one set of wings!!
There I’ve said it and I’m not sorry!! I’ll just get out the steel underwear and take the hits!! It’s open season on Cactus Jack!!
Good post Andrew. Should really stir the pot, but still teach your new tiers how to do it the traditional way. You may have some Rising Stars there!!
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here!
Cactus
Jack you know the wings are there (preferably in orange or chartreuse)so us blind guys know where the fly is at. Without them even a mediocre caster like me has no problem putting a fly clean out of sight. If I could see every midge coming off the water like you do I might think about omiting them.
all leaders tangle; mine are just better at it than most. Jim
Hummm…Do I add them ? Yes…
Do I think they are “Needed”…ummm to catch fish…Not positive either way I know they are what creates the airfoil that sets the hook upright in the water!!!..And keeps it from sitting face down in the surface film…well if the fly be “Traditionally” Hackled…I use A.K.Best’s Hackling method religiously, Yes even on the catskill tyes…Shoot me if’in you must…lol…but I like the method and what it imparts to the fly!
As I like wings on my flies…It’s up to the tyer himself when you get right down to it…Do as YOU wish…and I hope the fish agree with your wishes!.
“I’ve often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before” A.K.Best
Everyone wants to excel in this sport but at the same time we let traditionalists place restrictions on our tactics, methods, and ideas. I always assumed that fly fishing was a sport that allowed imagination, creation, adaptation, investigation, dedication, education, revelation? : Fox Statler, On Spinners (Not the dainty Dry Fly kind) “Spinner’d Minner Fly”
“Wish ya great fishing”
Bill
RW here,’
I seldom tie in wings on my working dry flies. For show flies I do, but I don’t see the need for wings in actual use. From below, the trout can’t see them unless they’re spentwings. I use wings on my wets, but not on my dries. A trout, in his window of vision will see and hit a good stiff hackle, high floating variant just as quickly as he will hit a winged fly. all other things being equal. Wingless, dry variants were Art Flicks favorite flies. If they were good enough for him they’re good enough for me.
Practically speaking, I think wings only add aesthetic properties to a dry fly for the benefit of the fisherman, not the fish. I think the trout could care less.
Example: If some folks think a trout won’t hit a wingless fly because they “can’t” see the wings, what in the world makes them think a trout “will” hit a dry fly with a big, unnatural chunk of steel sticking out of its butt that the fish obviously “can see”. The fact that they do hit the fly is pretty clear to me. They “don’t” care about the presence of the hook or the absence of the wings. So why waste my precious woodie flank on the dries, when I can save them for use on my wets.
Later, RW
“We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours.” -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-
[This message has been edited by Royal Wulff (edited 27 December 2005).]
Y’know, I totally agree with RW…it’s always been a mystery to me how we could possibly believe that any fly with the hook sticking out of it’s posterior could trick any thinking, observant trout. Hmmmmm?
There’s snow on the roof but the fire still burns in the oven.
So many theories:
Vince Marinaro thought that large wings were a triggering device, that trout could see them, and that in fact, it would be the first thing the trout sees. Marinaro used oversized wings on his famous thorax patterns.
One of his disciples, Datus Proper, argued for wingless dryflies in “What The Trout Said.” Proper believed that the hackle (in what he referred to as a Hackle Fly) represented both legs and wings.
Of course, Haystacks, Comparaduns and Sparkle Duns all lack the distinctive wings of a Catskill.
My guess is that separate wings are probably not needed. That said, they probably don’t hurt either.
I think hackle tip wings are a pain and lately have been using either turkey flats, t-base, wood duck or mallard for wings. This winter, to make it even simpler, I’m not splitting the wings but rather keeping it to a single post.
I know some have a theory that mayflies hold their wings together when on the water. I’m pretty sure the single post thing will work, but I’ll see come Spring.
As for the hook, the best explanation is that trout look for positives, not negatives. The look for what they expect to be there (wings, legs, body, tail, dimpling etc.) and not for what they don’t (hook, tippet).
My $0.02.
-Steven
I normaly put the wings on, just don’t want to take a change that a fish will reject it because there are no wings. I will skip them on small flies, size 20 and under.
-ST
[url=http://www.flyfishingwis.com:4f692]www.flyfishingwis.com[/url:4f692]
I tie most dry flies as paraloops so there are no wings. They have worked for me.
Rick
I go along with sir_trout…but usually limit my winging to flies larger than #24 (too limited on the 26-32 hooks). Don’t really know FOR SURE what the trouts see, but I think they look better with wings.
Trouts don’t live in ugly places
Do I catch MORE fish with dries that have wings? … Usually.
The wing is for me, … not the trout. So I can better see the darn thing in a riffle.
On pools and still water on those postcard evenings, … I don’t need them.
I’m REALLY not a very proficient fly tyer, … so adding wings adds LOTS of time it takes me to do a fly (and I RARELY tye anything smaller than 16’s).
Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:0b1d8]Fishing the Ste-Marguerite[/url:0b1d8]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 December 2005).]
Here is another though. “Do the wings act like a rudder and help the fly land right side up?”
-ST
For me personally it all depends on the size of the fly. Bigger than an 18 I tie with wings. 18 and smaller I don’t. Part of it is simplicity and part of it is my eyes don’t see as well as they used to.
Steven I have already tried the one wing thing, they are ugly but do work, just use a wrap or 2 around the base to flare the post.
later
Mike
So some of you would dress the Adams without upright grizzly hackle tips? Think about that one. LOL
Seege
Newfoundler,
That’s what I do. Just once around. Nice flair. I don’t think it’s ugly at all, really.
-Steven
Fireman,
After the hackle tip wing gets gunked up, completely wet and narrows to the width of a hat pin, do you really think a fish can differentiate the grizzly wing from the grizzly and brown hackle?
Seems very unlikely to me.
-Steven
Sir Trout,
My own experience is that if anything, hackle tip wings enhance the likelihood that the fly will tip over, all else equal.
I’m not much of tier, and (as Hans says), your mileage may very.
With just a hackle collar fly, I’ve found that the fly tends to land upright and even if it doesn’t, who cares? It’s tied in the round so however it lands looks correct!
More pennies from me…
-Steven
I agree with Chris - I think that when I add wings, they’re usually more for me than the fish. I tend to fish parachutes a lot more, probably because I can actually see the darn things…
Dennis