So just two years after they poisoned this lake to get rid of the chub and reestablish the trout fishery they find golden shiner bait fish.
See article:
http://www.kpic.com/news/local/26141784.html
I don’t understand why people think they still need to use live bait? Fishing tackle and techniques are advanced enough, we can do without. I think they need to make a $10,000 mandatory fine, and 30 days in jail for use of live bait.
Can you post a link of WHY these baitfish are so bad?
Invasive species are bad, but lets be honest, WE are invasive species. If the water gets used, something that isn’t “native” will end up in it. The shinners were probably released by a guy that thought it is rediculous to kill an ENTIRE LAKE as a result of a baitfish. How many year classes of amphibians were killed by this masive release of poison? How many birds needed to relocate for lack of food, how many dollars were lost from tourism? I don’t care why and how many facts you have, if you try and play mother nature, you will loose. Hopefully this will teach some people to learn to live with the problems we create because we just can not wipe the slate clean.
It’s the Tui Chubs that were the issue…totally ruined a great fishery. The lake was rehabilitated about 20 years ago …which was a great success story till folks reintroduced the chubs…and ruined the fishing/tourism
Even the environmentalists agreed with this 2nd poisoning.
The DoF&W even took measures to be sure the eagles had their food chain.
Anyway it’s a long story and the effort was done after considerable study/concern and detail.
Diamond Lake used to be considered one of the best fisheries in the West.
Here is an old Link prior to poisoning Diamond Lake; http://www.umpqua-watersheds.org/unf/dl-poison.html
In my opinion, it is an economic issue about losing the 100,000 anglers who used to fish Diamond Lake every year. Diamond Lake is primarily a bait lake, but maybe restricting it to flies & lures only would be an idea, but no, that wouldn’t bring 100,000 anglers to the lake every year.
Doug
Flyrodde: i believe Doug’s post pretty well responds to your question. One more thing. Next time you catch a rainbow trout or a nice brown trout in upstate New York thank mans meddling for it as they were not native to your neck of the woods.
Tim
I do know that most of the trout I catch have been introduced. But it is a slightly different situation. I do wish that all the Brook trout and Atlantic salmon still swam my native rivers, but they do not. Some of the rivers were damned, some poisoned by industry. What survives is a mere illusion of what was.
This was a man made fishery that when stocks seemed to dwindle, the whole lake was poisoned to start anew. Then again as a baitfish, for whatever reasons, made catching of predatory “sport” fish more difficult, the powers at be tried to wipe the slate clean. At what cost were both “cleansings.” How many species struggled to adapt to a purposeful drought and chemical concoction? No one knows these answers, and if they say it was safe and thought out, they are lying.
This is a money loving country, and every decision is ultimately decided by the final dollar. It is a shame this happened and it is a shame when it happens again. We are not learning from our mistakes, but taking an insane approach to how we manage our waste, our energy, our government, and our lives.
Quote; This was a man made fishery that when stocks seemed to dwindle, the whole lake was poisoned to start anew. Then again as a baitfish, for whatever reasons, made catching of predatory “sport” fish more difficult, the powers at be tried to wipe the slate clean. At what cost were both “cleansings.” How many species struggled to adapt to a purposeful drought and chemical concoction? No one knows these answers, and if they say it was safe and thought out, they are lying."
Many fresh water fisheries are not man made, but I can say that all fisheries fresh or salt and man affected, most in a negative way. While I respect your opinion, amphibians, insects, reptiles and marsh flora where all expected to be killed by the draining and poisoning, so CHUB were not the only species affected. Also, rainbow trout, while not as predacious as brown trout, will and do eat fish.
It was all about money, rainbow trout brought money in. But so would other sport fish. A diverse fishery would have been much better off and easier to maintain. A little research and flexibility would have been much less detrimental to the surrounding environment. They were looking for a quick fix, and it backfired. Hopefully we can FINALLY learn from this mistake before we make more of them.
Moot argument. Flyrodde might be right, it is driven by money. Doesn’t really matter what the driving factors are, the lake will be rehabilitated again. Whether draining and rotenone are the correct methods can be argued 'til the cows come home. Two things are for sure the rehabilitation and the fact that introducing an invasive species is illegal. If you don’t like the rehab then something needs to be done about the illegal introductions. Either change the law or as I say, if caught, prosecute to the fullest, but that is unlikely in today’s society.
Can you name a fresh water fishery that isn’t man made?
Let’s say that you have a lake with 12-15 inch Rainbow Trout, living with Chub that are 6-10 inches long, there is no way that any of those Rainbow trout are going to start behaving like Largemouth Bass. Then the Chub start breeding & breeding & breeding.
A diverse fishery would have been easier to maintain? Yes that is true! It would be easier to maintain because 100,000 anglers wouldn’t bother to go there.
Why was treating Diamond Lake detrimental to the surrounding environment? There was no poison used!
This is what they have learned from treating Diamond Lake; The anglers came back, the Rainbow Trout are growing and things are getting back to normal. According to the history of Diamond Lake, the treatment will have to applied again, or they could just leave Diamond Lake to the Chubs and give up on it.
The perfect solution for fly anglers, would be to restrict Diamond lake to flies only, but that would not be profitable.
Doug
Doug,
Because a fresh water fishery is supplimented by man, does not mean he created the fishery.
If you drain a lake half way and kill all the fish, aquatic insects, amphibians and reptiles how is that not detrimental to the environment? Draining marsh and wet lands, destroying them for years to come? How is this NOT detrimental? They probably created more land suitable to build on. This isn’t a plan to help the fishery; this is a plan to make as much money as possible.
I’m not looking for a perfect solution for fly anglers. But there is a solution out there that does not use chemicals and provides a fishery for recreation as well as provides water quality for boating swimming and enjoying the outdoors.
There is didymo, zebra muscles, snakehead, and lamprey in many fisheries, shall we poison those too? There are lake trout in Yellowstone, Atlantic salmon in the Pacific and Pacific salmon in the great lakes. Why not just keep all the species we want on file, poison everything and restock only what WE want. Nature isn’t about trying to keep around what has a financial value; it is survival of the fittest. But since it?s all about the numbers, why not just stock the lake with 5lb trout and charge people to fish it. Just poison it every year and stock it in the spring, fish it out and start the cycle again. I guess some people like fishing a sterile environment with no natural wonder and surprise. Just give me my easy to catch fish and draw the largest crowds you can.
Glad to see some discussion! There has definitely been some points brought up that I hadn’t considered. I myself am no expert in this area, and do not try to be. I posted the article in a knee-jerk reaction. I guess my initial anger was that here all this time, money, effort was spent to treat the lake to re-establish the trout fishery, and now they find more bait fish, to start the cycle all over again.
I did find this website about the rotenone treatment of diamond lake. It has a very good FAQ section.
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/diamond_lake/FAQs.asp
I was pleased to see that it is not as harmful to most other species as you would think. It looks like other than fish, zooplankton are most sensitive to it compared to other life. Mammals and birds are not affected apparently. I do take this info with a grain of salt, and hope that the poisoning is only used seldom as a last resort.
As far as having a diverse habitat with multiple species of so called native trout and bait fish, I just don’t think it is going to happen. The trout (at least in Oregon’s alpine lakes) will lose out every time. Davis Lake in Oregon is another example. It used to be an excellent trout fishery, but someone put some largemouth bass in there, and that is pretty much all that is in the lake now. Fortunately for Davis lake, people like to fish for largemouth more than they like to fish for Chub or Shiners.
As far as the natural wonder and suprise goes… catching a bait fish that was put in the lake by man, would not make me think of “natural wonder”. Survival of the fittest? If we want to stick with that theory and not let species have a chance, we might as well kill all living things other than humans…are we not the fittest?
And of course, economics is the bottom line. I whole-heatedly agree with that. How much money will be lost the next time the lake will be treated?
I just wish I knew what was going through the mind of the person that was putting the live bait on their hook. I myself have used live bait often…worms. Trout love em, but they don’t destroy the fishery.
Just thoughts…
~ Kurt
Lets see if I have this right. Is it true that we are talking about a man made problem in a man made fishery, stocked with trout by man that man raised in a hatchery, being threatened by species introduced to the man made fishery by man that was probably not breaking any laws or regulations regarding the man made fishery?
Well, I see that the lake is a natural lake. So the lake wasn’t man made and at the very least it is not in a natural state due to stockings. Still dealing with a man made problem, right?
Nighthawk: You said: was probably not breaking any laws or regulations regarding the man made fishery?
It is a violation of Oregon law to fish with live fish as bait or to introduce live fish into a body of water without ODFW approval.
Tim
Pennsylvania also limits what type of live bait and there are some waters where live bait of any sort is verboten. Use of species of carp, like gold fish, is not allowed here as well.
I do not like the use of the “nuclear” option (kill everything) to “restore” a fishery to a level that man wants it to be at. The problem maybe out of hand but there are better ways to deal with the problem. Your fish and wildlife folks should have tried introducing a large hybrid predatory fish into the fishery first. Hybrids like the Tiger Muskie are sterile. They will, through a voracious appetite and predation, keep the bait fish and all fish populations under control without overpopulating the lake. When you think they have done their job just let them die off or fish them out.
Of course this would take time and will up set the purist that doesn’t have an open mind. It also will not satisfy the instant gratification crowd and it may cost some revenue as well. Might work there and might not but should have been tried.
I hate to say this but it almost sounds like folks out there have the mindset that trout/salmon are the only species that count and all others are garbage fish. Please tell me I am wrong there.
Take a look at this for population control:
51 inches, 41 pounds
The lake this monster was in has quite a few of these ranging from this size down to fingerling, lots of big large mouth bass, tons of perch and other pan fish, stocked and hold over rainbow trout too. It is only 88 acres in size. It is spring and creek fed. Oh yea, you are allowed to fish it with live minnows like fatheads and shiners. The lake bed is limestone shale so the water is very low in acid. There is a tremendous diversity of aquatic life in this very small man made lake. Well I guess I am comparing apples to oranges here so I will cease and desist.
In Washington State WDFW has used rotonone to kill off lakes for rehab, grass carp to control invasive weeds, muskies to control invasive fish populations and various manual methods. I think the dept. tries to use the weapon that best fits the job at hand. To jump to the conclusion that folks here in the west only care about trout/salmon is a gross generalization. Although those are a native species here and we do what we can to protect them. After work tonight I will be tossing poppers for bucket mouths at a lake close to home. By the way the lake of which I speak is managed as both a trout fishery and a bass fishery. Some lakes are managed as a trout fishery and some managed for warm water species and some are managed for both. The problems happen when someone decides that he or she know best what fish should be put in lakes and illegally dumps a bucket full of fish into a lake it is not managed for. Or someone decides that the laws do apply to them and decides that he or she can use live bait where it is prohibited. To pass judgement on a fisheries dept. because they try to manage a lake for the benenfit of the anglers that enjoy that lake is narrow minded to say the least. I remember fishing Diamond Lake over 40 years ago it was a trout lake back then and for years prior to that. Now I guess because some idiot decided to illegally fish with live bait we should dump half a decade of traditional fisheries and let the shiners have it. Right. Why not place the blame on the idiot that broke the law instead of the managers or the people that live in the west? From what I am reading on this topic I am glad I live out here and not where the people are so judgemental.
Quote; I hate to say this but it almost sounds like folks out there have the mindset that trout/salmon are the only species that count and all others are garbage fish. Please tell me I am wrong there."
Eric,
I have never known anyone who thought that warm water species were garbage fish, excluding carp and suckers. Oregon has some great smallmouth bass, walleye, channel cat, crappie and sturgeon angling. I would say that those fish species I mentioned are much easier to manage, because they are stronger fish and there are less anglers fishing for them. Trout, steelhead and salmon fishing has been very popular for years, but I don’t think it is a prejudice, but a preference. Also kokanee salmon that are stocked in Oregon lakes are easy to manage, because they spawn and die after a few years and the F&W takes the eggs and starts the cycle over again.
Doug
Talk about judgmental. Judging the entire east off of me or a few others on this board. All I am doing is saying something about what I read on this board. I asked to be corrected if I was wrong but not to be berated like that. I am trying to be fair here.
You should read my post again. I did not, in any way, shape or form, excuse anyone, bait fisher or fly fisher, from committing an illegal act. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Hey, I am just making an observation, trying to find out the mindset about this, learn about the laws and perhaps suggest an alternative to killing every fish in the fishery.
If that’s being judgmental then so be it. You will get over it or you won’t.
Thank you, Doug. That’s what I was hoping to find out. Some of both warm and cold water fishes are treated that way here and it disgusts me. No matter what state or people it comes from.
Eric,
I am sure that people that love to catch smallmouth bass, would love the Snake River Reservoirs (eastern border) and the Columbia River (north) and the S. Umpqua River. When I fished Hells Canyon Res., I caught a lot of smallies and the country is beautiful!
Paul might agree that there are a lot of OR coast lakes that receive little pressure, that have warm water species and trout and sometimes brood stock steelhead.
Don’t worry Paul! I won’t reveal them!
Doug