Hi,
I just tied this comparadun using deer hair from Blue Ribbon Flies. It has very short black tips.
I would like someone with coastal deer hair (without black tips) to tie the same fly (size 16 on TMC 101 hook) and send it to me. Un-treated Superfine dubbing. I will then place them very carefully in a dish of water and time how long it stays above the water line.
Please PM me and I will supply my mailing address.
Thank you,
Byron
Byron,
It seems we are conflicted in our definition of ‘comparadun’ and also in the rationale we both may have been given for the use of coastal deer hair. Now I say this in a good way. First, I consider a comparadun as what you’ve tyed but with either hackle fiber, microfibbet, or similar singular hair type tails. I view your tye, with a tail(shuck) made of zelon, antron, hi vis, etc. as a ‘sparkledun’, per Craig Mathews. Here’s a way I consider viable in determining what a fly pattern is or how to quickly identify what it looks like (of course this method assumes the person hearing the information is familiar with various flies).
You’re on the water and your friend is about 75 yards away and he’s getting hit after hit while you’re getting stymied. You yell out to your friend, nicely of course, “What are you using?” He yells back, truthfully you hope, “I’ve got on a size 14 olive comparadun”. That information alone allows you to go to your fly box and pull out the same fly pattern that your friend means. Now, if after he said that, you switched and continued to get stymied while he continued to pick up fish you may wade over to look at his fly and see if you matched his description. If you see a ‘zelon shuck’ in the tail position, you now know he meant an olive sparkledun. For whatever reason, the fish are keying in on that specific pattern style with the shuck and not the comparadun with the 2 tail fibers you’ve attached to your tippet.
Now, as to the black tip vs. no black tip - I have no idea if one works(and even the word ‘works’ needs to be defined) better than the other. I believe the non-black tipped hair has a shorter taper whereas the hair with the black tip has a longer taper. Again, which is better I can only guess, although IMHO the non-tipped hair handles more easily. I have a feeling that deer from the same location that have been killed at different times of the year have different hair textures and characteristics.
I won’t (can’t) post photo of comparadun but PM me your snail mail and I’ll send you a small piece of coastal deer. You can tye a nd post side by side.
Allan
Byron…I can probably tie up a patten for you, but your test would not show anything that is not a known already. In it’s own right, the blacker the tips the more dense the hair…and there is a loss in bouyancy. Not to say it doesn’t float just fine…it does. But if compared with a less dense variety, it is less bouyant. The choice to tie a particular pattern with a heavy-barred hair is not done with bouyancy in mind. That’s why they make floatant. 
It’s done for the mottling affect within the footprint, much like using a Cree or Grizzly hackle.
Ralph
If your buddy is getting hit after hit on a fly which was the same in every regard except the “shuck” vs “2 tail fibers”, I would say it is due to presentation not the tail.
Your story does however make a nice illustration of why naming conventions are so important- so many folks vehemently resist using the correct Genus and species name of the insects they love so much… yet five people can all be talking about what they call a “March Brown” (for example), and each have a different insect in mind.
Byron- your test is only going to show you the differences in the two individual pieces of hide which were used, not a useful difference in the kind of deer every time all the time. Pieces of deer hair vary in characteristics to a huge extent, even if they are all labeled the same. That is why it is important to know what qualities you desire in the hair, and pick through the pieces at a shop until you find it. Hopefully you find 3 or 4 pieces and buy them all.
jszmczyk,
“Your story does however make a nice illustration of why naming conventions are so important-”
THAT WAS THE POINT! Bryon had written “comparadun” and yet the photo was of a ‘sparkledun’. At least that’s what they are known as in this neck of the woods and I suspect in the west too.
Of course I know the difference between a sparkle dun and the more traditional “comparadun”. I’m sorry if I wasn’t specific enough. I was focused on the appropriate hair to use in ALL comparadun style flies, whether split tailed or shucked instead. The primary feature of the style of fly is the use of flaired hair.
How about we ask Craig Mathews which hair is the best for these flies???
I am pretty sure he would recommend this http://www.blue-ribbon-flies.com/shop/sparkle_dun_deer_hair_2x3/ 
which I assume is what you used to tie that beautiful example.
I think the whole thing about black tips is just that the dark hair tends to be more solid and flairs less. So if you have no black tips or black tips that are short enough so you are not tying in near the black part, it should flair well. I would look for fine hair with very short black tips or no black tips.
Byron,
I am certain you know the difference. However, you write about a comparadun yet have 2 photos of ‘sparkleduns’. As far as the opinion about black tips, Sure. Why not? And while you’re contacting Craig Mathews, I’ll contact and ask Al Caucci the same question. Maybe we’ll end up with diverse opinions in which case should we go to a third opinion for a tie-breaker? But feel free. Ask Mr. Mathews and report back.
Allan
Jay,
I know what he would recommend. He and his staff have helped me go through their bins and look for the fine deer hair with very short black tips. Now, as the “home of the Sparkle Dun”, why would they not have and recommend the very best floating hair for the fly? My guess is that they do…
I think I will ask Craig if coastal deer hair without the short black tips would actually be better for flotation.
Will let everyone know from the inventor of the Sparkle Dun.
Byron…the problem is, you are asuming that there is only one hair that is the “best”. You are using the general guideline of little-to-no black tips as if it is written in stone. And while floatability is a key to any dry fly, the characteristics of a material and how they match a particular hatch is just as important. There really is no “best”. If you find a particular patch of elk hair that matches a hatch you are targeting, then for that pattern it is better than deer hair, coastal or otherwise. If you find a heavy-tipped coastal deer hair that matches the winging of the natural, than it in turn is better than any other coastal deer hair for that particular pattern. “As a rule”…less black tip means a better flaring hair, and a better floating hair. But if that’s all you conisider, you are missing other aspects of a pattern that can make it either effective or just another nicely tied fly floating down the stream.
Ralph
There are 3 reasons short even black tips are desirable.
A. The black tips are solid - so the shorter the black tips, the more hollow hair in a wing.
B. Hollow hair flairs so it fans when tied to form the fan wing of a comparadun/sparkledun.
C. The change in color from pale stem to black tips produces a color break which simulates a shorter wing. Even short tips means the color break simulates an even outline to the wing which is desirable.
The fourth reason, that HOLLOW has a low specific gravity, is ONLY important IF the fly is UNDER water. There are two reasons a fly floats. The first is surface tension and surface tension does not depend on specific gravity. The second is specific gravity.
The compardun floats because of surface tension. The fly is supported on the surface film (meniscus) by the flat sides of the deer hair supporting the fly. Unless the deer hair under water, it does not provide buoyancy - i.e., a low specific gravity that makes the fly rise when under water. It is obvious that anything that is above the water line CANNOT provide buoyancy. Anything above the water actually WEIGHS down the fly.
So there is confusion that a wing that is above water is buoyant. What matters is the mass per silhouette. That is, the lower the mass of material to give a silhouette, means there is less mass to sink the fly. This is different than being buoyant.
I believe that if there were a solid synthetic fiber material that could flair and simulate a wing that was lighter than deer hair per silhouette, it would work better than deer hair. A compardun tied pattern tied with CDC, which is composed of solid fibers for example, can form a wing that is light and works well.
The deer hair below is about an inch long and has very very short even black tips.
Silver,
I guess I cannot agree with some of what you’ve described but I’ll leave it to someone else to disprove your concept of bouyancy.
‘Desireable’ depends on what you are trying to achieve with a specific pattern. However, IN GENERAL, black tips are not desireable for the vast majority of comparaduns/sparkleduns that are tyed, sold and purchased. The deer skin that has the largest area of hair with short, or non-existant, black tips is the most sought after. That’s not only my opinion, it’s the opinion of at least 2 renown fly designers , commercial tyers and shop owners who examine and buy deer skins specifically for these types of flies.
However, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. That’s what makes fly fishing/tying so great. The only true experts are the fish and they won’t tell us a damn thing, LOL.
Allan
All I know is…this pattern has placed more fish in hand than I could hope to count. Purposefully tied with heavily tipped coastal deer hair with as much barring as possible, for both wing and tail over some of the pickiest trout. I had no idea that all this time I was tying it all wrong? 
Allan,
To correct my non-specificity, I tied a comparadun
I may be learning a lot today!! I wonder why a warm water deer hair popper type fly floats like a cork? I thought it was because it has a big bundle of hollow deer hair?
We should submit these issues to that television show “Mythbusters” for clarification?
Exactly NJ!!! What a beautiful fly. Aren’t those short black tips at the end of the wing hair???
Yes at the end. But a good 1/8" long, pronounced & slightly uneven on the patch. In most shops these patches end up in the bargain bin. But when stacked it provides a mottling that work very well.
Silver,
I thought CDC floats because it has the natural preen gland fluid on it from the duck???
I’ve got one patch here that is labeled Coastal whitetail. But 2 others that are coastal blacktail. I find it more often in the blacktail patches.
However…when tying the vast mojority of my comparadun/haystack/sparkle dun patterns…I agree with the even color and little-to-no black tips. But it was fun discussing coastal hair with you all. It’s one of my favorite materials. 
I thought I might go to a hero of mine amongst fly fishers/tiers - Gary LaFontaine. I looked in his book “TroutFlies-Proven Patterns”. He has the “Duck Butt Dun”. It is a comparadun style fly with several CDC fibers forming the trailing shuck. He said that he was searching for the perfect trailing shuck material and tried all you might think of including Antron Sparkle Yarn. He settled on CDC for the trailing shuck on his variation of the Comparadun. When I look at it, I notice short black tips on the deer hair too.
Below is my imitation of his “Duck Butt Dun”. He also says “…Tie in a tail of Cul de Canard (duck butt) feathers; make the tail the length of the hook shank (don’t try to make the tips even).”
Very often, someone will tell me that my “tail” on a sparkle dun is too long. It is a trailing shuck. And, if you think about it, it once covered all the way to the end of the thorax…
