Cutters and burners

An interesting technique for forming wings is the use of wing burners, these are tools which look like specially made tweezers, usually formed of sheet brass. The feather to be shaped is placed in the burner, which is then held tightly closed with the fingers, and the excess material is then singed off using a gas lighter flame or similar, matches or candles should not be used, their flames are very sooty and will discolour the material and the wing burner, which should be kept clean anyway by wiping occasionally with a kleenex or coarse cloth, do not apply the flame directly to the burner, just hold it close around the edges of the burner where the excess material is to be removed.
This technique depends on the feather having a central stalk or quill, as the fibres would otherwise not retain their shape, or just fall apart after being burned. Any feather with a central quill may be used, but usually hen or cock hackles are used.

Burning quills has a slight secondary advantage as well in that the fused ends of the fibres retain their shape better. Wings formed in this manner can be made to look very realistic indeed, at least to human eyes. It is also possible to form latex sheet and some other materials using wing burners, but be careful, some materials may flare up when burned, or melt and damage your burner.

Volatile materials such as varnish, thinners, glues and some floatants should be kept well away from open flames by the way, given a correct vapour mixture with air these materials may even explode, which may tend to dampen one?s dressing enthusiasm somewhat.

Yet another method of forming wings is a set of small sharp pre-formed cutters mounted on the end of plastic or metal stamps. They are shown in the photo alongside the burners . These are used to stamp out wings from hackle feathers and similar. Like the burners they must be used either on solid material like plastic or on feathers with a central quill, and they should be used on a surface which “gives” a little such as an old mouse pad or piece of vinyl. This ensures a clean cut, and saves damage to the cutters. Feather material glued to fine nylon mesh, such as a ladies stocking, stretched over an embroidery frame, may also be formed using this technique, and makes nice looking wings albeit rather on the heavy side.

TL
MC

What I find interesting is the lack of commercially available wing burners.

Mike, when using the burners for mayfly wings, what part of the feather do you use for the wing? Near the tip? In the web?

Which part of the feather you use depends a lot on the fly you are dressing and the effect you want. Genetic cock hackles are usually quite poor, as they have little or no web! This means the wings don’t hold together very well. Various webby feathers like hen hackles, various soft hackles, and other bird body and wing feathers, ( Various coverts), tend to give quite good results. It all depends on what you want to achieve.

There are quite a few wing burners and cutters of various types on the market, but I have made my own burners from sheet brass, and I make cutters from used “throw away” razor blades. ( I still have a small hobby metal shop). This is not so easy for an amateur though, as the tempering etc. is not as easy as one might imagine! :slight_smile:

http://fullwingburners.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8

http://www.bearlodgeangler.com/other_tools.htm

Instructions to make your own burners;

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/tyingtips/part195.php

You need to play around with some scrap feathers to see the effects of placing the feathers in various ways. I only use a few patterns with such burned wings now, and I have some other methods of making wings which are also good, and rather less bother.

Some of the flies made with these tools look very nice indeed, but I don’t think the fish really care much! :slight_smile:

Over the years, I have collected, made, and used, a very large range of tools, and dressed a very large range of flies, but to be perfectly honest with you, after fifty years fly-dressing, half a century spent learning about these things, I could quite easily do without most of these tools, and also do fine with a very much restricted range of fly-patterns.

You have to weigh up the usefulness of such things, ( and of course the desire to “play” with them), against what you are trying to achieve. You don’t actually need any of these things to dress effective flies.

One reason for my learning about all these tools was that people in my fly-dressing classes wanted to know about them, so I had no choice in the matter! :slight_smile:

Lots of people still ask about these things, and I will quite happily answer them if I can, but I usually carefully refrain from making any comment on how useful some of these things really are. If people want to use these things, that’s fine. I don’t bother using many tools at all any more when dressing my own flies, and I often simply sit and dress flies in my hands, just with a pair of scissors palmed. I don’t really need anything else at all for most of my flies. Some tools are of course extremely useful for various things. Again, how you do things and what you use all depends on what you want to achieve.

I certainly don’t want to discourage anybody from using tools!

EDIT: It is only fair to point out that I don’t dress flies below a size 16 in my fingers ( and very rarely anywhere else either!). If you want to dress flies size 18 and below, you really need a vice to do it.

TL
MC

I’m not really interested in cutters as much as burners, so thanks for the link to Full Wing Burners.

I like a full wing that keeps its shape. Hen hackle tips and rolled wings tend to narrow up into nothing when wet.

Currently, I’m a fan of reversed (“pulled”) hackle wings aka Wonder Wings. Somewhat fragile, but hold their shape.

Actually that is a common misconception, and only true when the feathers are wet IN AIR.

Wet feathers actually maintain their volume in water, and may even seem to increase in volume. They are in fact supported by the water. They only collapse when taken out of it! You can try this yourself, just put a few flies in a glass of water.

For dry flies, wet feathers are useless anyway, as they will cause the fly to sink. The idea is not to get the fly wet at all. If correctly treated with the right floatant, even webby hen hackles will stay dry and maintain their volume and shape.

TL
MC

I agree with the former. Yes, feathers in water maintain their volume.

As for the latter (which is what I was referring to), theory here is greater than practice. Dry fly wings do get wet, at the minimum, on the pick up (or at least my pickup) and every once in awhile, I do catch a fish, which has the habit of taking the fly under water.

I have yet to find a floatant that will allow hackles to maintain their shape, even after getting wet. What do you use? I use Watershed in advance and dessicant while on stream.

I posted a thread on it. Floating flies. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/showthread.php?t=25479

Should explain everything.

With the right floatant, ( and Watershed is in my opinion very very good) for the flies you are using, and the proper accessories, this is not such a problem. Of course, if a fly is really savaged and slimed by a fish then it is harder to get it floating again. But it is a lot easier with the right stuff.

TL
MC

I read it.

Can’t say I understood it all (I’m not a science guy) but I did read it.

Thanks.

Sorry about that, but some of these explanations tend to get complex.

The main points are that if you want to refloat slimed flies you have to remove the slime, because the slime will otherwise sink the fly. It also sticks feathers together because it is a mucous. Amadou will remove the slime.

Once you have removed the slime, you need to dry the fly again. The dessicant should do that.

Then you need to waterproof the fly again. The permaflote does that.

The flies pre-treated with watershed will float long and well, even if pulled under occasionally, as long as they are not slimed by fish.

Of course with badly slimed waterlogged flies, all you can really do is change the fly!

TL
MC

I got that. Probably need to find myself some amadou. But floating isn’t really my concern.

My concern (or OCD to be more truthful) is the shape of the wings on my mayfly subimago patterns.

Well, using the burners will give you very nice shapes.

http://www.danica.com/flytier/zhorvath/zoltans_fav.htm

http://www.danica.com/flytier/lnasim/scintilla_spent_spinner.htm

http://www.danica.com/flytier/akoziel/cinnamon_sedge.htm

http://www.danica.com/flytier/akoziel/olive_sedge.htm

http://www.danica.com/flytier/lnasim/scintilla_extended_body_mayfly.htm

http://www.danica.com/flytier/hweidler/stone_fly_nymph.htm

http://www.flyfisherman.com/ftb/tljswings/index3.html

http://www.flymartonline.com/article168.html

http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=burnt

http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ken_no_hackle

http://globalflyfisher.com/reviews/tmc-wingburner/

( One can slightly modify the Tiemco burners so that the jaws fit, any rough edges are removed, with a diamond file. I modified such a set myself. The manufacturing tolerances are not exact, and the sets do vary a little in quality).

If you are good with your hands and a little metal work, you can make such sets quite easily. I prefer this style to the flat folded brass burners now, as they are much easier to use and control.

TL
MC

That’s pretty cool, although I’m interested in natural wings.

Back to the question of floating, just so I get this right. You’re pre-treating with Watershed. After a fish is caught, you’re de-sliming with amadou, then a dessicant, and then a product called Permaflote?

Not entirely sure what you mean by “natural” wings, you mean natural looking shapes? ( Actually the shapes on some of those flies are pretty rough!).

Yes. It’s the only way I have found to refloat slimed flies. Getting fresh flies to float is not usually a problem. They will float for days in a bowl of water for instance. With some floatants, they will also float well after being pulled under on stream, ( with maybe a false cast or two). Getting slimed flies to float again after catching a fish on them, can be a nightmare!

The problem is that the slime coats the fly, and also clogs the feathers etc, because it is a mucous. This completely negates the function of the floatant and the water once again can coat the slime on the fly.

Before you can achieve anything else, you have to remove the slime. Drying the slime does no good, because it gets wet again as soon as it touches the water. You can’t waterproof slime!

The amadou removes most of the slime, the dessicant dries up what little is left, and the permaflote then removes the dry slime rest, at the same time applying wax to the fly.

Some other things may work well too, but I have tried loads of stuff over the years, and found nothing better. ( I have not tried the Wonder Cloth Patch or the dry magic, but I suspect these work in the same way).

Many floatants simply turn your flies into “one fish flies”, and the only option is to change the fly after catching one!

TL
MC

I meant natural material rather than a synthetic.

Thanks for all the info, really.

Ah, I see. I have tried a few synthetics, just for laughs, but I only normally use feathers.

If I find the time later I will post a few tricks I use for making natural wings which are really quite simple, but I will have to set up the camera etc, as I have no pictures of these methods available. I will try to do it later.

TL
MC

Looking forward to it.

Instead of using a flame with my burner tools I use a cauteriser which is just a hot tipped tool, which is easier to control and doesnt cause the feather to go up in flames. Especially if like you suggested earlier you coat them with glue!!!

this thread has supplied me with a welth of information now i want to get a full set of burrners even more. the temica burners seem nice but are they worth the cost.

[QUOTE=Steven;269202]What I find interesting is the lack of commercially available wing burners.
QUOTE]

http://www.renzetti.com/home.php?cat=316&sort=price&sort_direction=0&page=1

Boy, this is funny to see.

I’ve been thinking about those since seeing them in Fly Tyer. Have to admit, I’m even finding those extended body tools interesting.