I have noticed, at the expense of mild perplexity, the apparent contradiction among authorities for the proper application of hackle to the hook for dry flies. Skip Morris, in his “Fly Tying Made Clear And Simple” at p58 writes that the curved side of the hackle should face back toward the tail. Our own Al Campbell, in his section on “The Basic Dry Fly” writes that the curved side should face forward. If I read correctly “A.K.'s Fly Box” at p122, it makes no difference, and I would tend to agree, if the purpose of it all is simply to help the fly stand up in the surface film. The most important consideration for flotation would seem to be stiff barbules with ample floatant applied. But then, if Bill Logan’s observations in the Summer issue of “Fly Tyer” are accurate, none of our efforts work quite as well as we might think in actual practice. Yet, we somehow manage to fool a fish or two with our fraudulent offerings.
The term “curved side” is ambiguous. Aren?t both sides curved? I think almost everybody ties traditional dries with the dull/concave side forward. I have watched Skip Morris tie and know he does it that way.
The hackle barbules should generally curve toward the eye of the hook to prevent the fly from tipping on the hook eye.
The above statement is taken from Al Campbell’s Beginning fly tying lesson. Look under “The dry fly” instructions and he states that the hackle should face toward the hook eye. Just wanted to point this out.
Indeed, “curved” is ambiguous, but Skip Morris left no ambiguity when he wrote: “…the hackles should be on their sides, flat surfaces vertical, and the cupped side of the hackles, the concave side, should face back toward the tail.” p58. :? Has anyone read Bill Logan’s article “Sights Unseen” in Fly Tyer? His thesis is that none of our engineering assumptions about the dry fly actually work in practice, or perhaps do so by accident in presentation.
Everyone has their own thesis, thoughts, ideas and opinions. To each their own. Let’s just all do our own thing if it works for us.
That is the great thing about fly tying. There is no right way, wrong way just whatever way works for you. Some read too much and get too deep. Fly fishing and tying should be something that is fun and simple and I intend to keep it that way for myself.
For what it’s worth, probably purely aesthetics, The old school Catskill tiers: Cross, Dettes and Darbees had the shinny side of the feather, the side you see when you look at a cape or saddle face towards the eye of the hook. For what ever reason, when tied and wrapped this way the hackle fibers seem to stand out at 90 degrees from the hook. When tied and wrapped with the dull side or inside of the feather facing the eye the feather tends to tie in on an angle towards the eye of the hook.
Hope this helps.
Jim
Jim, thank you for your post and including your web sites, which I located and found very interesting and informative. This is one of the great benefits of the boards, as one thing leads to another. I have been interested in and have tied “spiders” or soft hackles for some time and have fished them to wonderful success in the west.
In my experience, a saddle hackle tied in with the dull side toward the eye will end up having the hackle tips pointing forward of the eye. A saddle tied in the opposite manner has the tip pointing back toward the hook point. A neck hackle tends to be more perpendicular to the shank in both tie in scenarios. Saddles, IMO, are overrated for collar style dry fly use. The barbs are soft and “curled” to begin with and more so in the sweet sizes 14-16-18. Now for Parachutes, well…
Let me add another element to this ?Curved Side, While Also Dull, Seems To Provoke Disagreement? topic. Tying the feather in by the tip or base!
My experience, I have grey hair, more grey hair and much more grey hair, has been as follows.
Start with a basic technique, first-tying in the feather.
Tying a feather in by the tip causes the feather to basically lean or lay towards the bend of the hook as in a ?Spey? fly.
Tying a feather in by the base causes the feather to lean or lay towards, the eye of the hook or more upright.
Now add in your second choice dull side or shiny side, it doesn?t matter it will simply exaggerate or neutralize the lean or lay of the feather.
Tying in a feather by the tip shiny side up or towards the eye will get the most pronounced lean towards the bend. While tying the feather in by the tip with dull side up or towards the eye will have a tendency to neutralize the lean.
The same applies for tying a feather in by the base.
This discussion could go on forever, so I would recommend tying the combinations mentioned above on a bare hook to benefit from the experience. This is the beauty of this hobby, craft, obsession or whatever you want to call it, there are very few hard and fast rules.
Always remember what works for you is the correct way!
Fly Tyer CC
Welcome aboard. Your very detailed reply say that we need to hear more from you! It’s people like you, willing to share thier knowledge here that makes this the best fly fishing site!
I’m one of those that is just happy to get a hackle tied on!
In January, good friend Keith (FAOL’s Wirebender) & I took a fly tying class & the instructor told us about the shiny & dull sides. Keith asked me if I could tell the difference…of course, my response was…Are you KIDDING?" My thought is it doesn’t matter a whole lot, but I DO appreciate the info given on this post.
Mike
Interesting topic. I don’t think it matters if one ties their hackle on their dry flies the way explained by A.K. Best, Dave Hughes, and Leeson and Schollmeyer. Basically, I want the hackle fibers to lean both forward and backward like the legs of a real Mayfly. To do this, Tie hackle to the side nearest you on th hook, Take a wrap in front of the wings, second wrap behind the wings ans many times as you desire then rap in front of the wings as many times as you desire. This way, the hackle fibers will lean forward and backward because of the twist made in the stem by bringing it behind and forward of the wings. Look at pictures of real mayflies or the live bug. The legs reach well into the abdomen and above the head.
Yes, with soft hackle flies, I more often than not find myself tying the hackle in by the tip for yet another reason: To minimize the length of the barbules going down on smaller hooks in those few necessary turns.
