I’ve been practicing my wrapping on an old factory rod, and made two wraps using the same threads. One got a coat of color preserver and the other did not. Both received an application of Flex Coat and the results are here:
Aside from personal preference, a lot of what I read points overwhelmingly to NOT using CP on wraps. Any reason or opinions on this, or have I just encountered a lot of builders from the non-CP camp?
Sorry for the blur, but the camera wanted to focus on the bench and not the rod. The color differential is what’s important, and that’s evident even though it’s out of focus.
Joe, you will hear arguments on both sides of the fence I am sure. Preferentially, I go without preservers unless I am doing a restoration on a rod that was originally finished with actual thread color rather than translucent finishes. It is my opinion that color preservers, for the most part, prohibit good adhesion of the finish to the rod. there are preservers that will penetrate and set up good adhesion of the thread to the blank but they are getting hard to find, and even though you do get some color preservation with them, the color will change ever so slightly (more depending on the color of the thread. Lots of folks wrap graphite and glass with NCP thread, but even then you will see some slight changes in color on some colors.
I won’t argue one side or the other quite frankly, but my preference is no color preserver!
I hadn’t thought about adhesive properties of the CP. Guess I just figured what sticks stays stuck. Do you mean that it will actually separate from the rod surface in time, or not adhere at all? Would scuffing the blank under the wraps make a difference in adhesion? So many questions, so little time.
I have been building rods since 1976 and have used most color preservers that have been available over the last 30 years. I think the shyness for color preserver is that a lot of people can’t get consistant results with the stuff. It takes practice to get good results.
I only had a couple of bad experiance with some thread and preserver combinations. For the most part, I have had very good results.
I used to do a lot of decorative butt wraps. Some took several days to accomplish. Color preserver is a must. Penitration through 2 to 4 layers of thread is a must. On some of those wraps that I have removed, I had penitration all the way to the blank. I don’t buy the adhesion argument. How tight does a guide wrap have to stick to the blank?
I have had one rod in 30 years have a failure on some guide wraps. I attributed that to the fact that after 7 years of being tossed into the bed of a pickup and being bounced around on the bottom of this guys john boat the wraps just plane were wore out. The rod looked like crap. The repair was not a warranty repair but I didn’t charge the guy. He hase since purchased 4 more rods from me.
Call me sometime and If you have some questions about getting good results with color preserver.
Joe, what I have found is that it doesn’t penetrate the thread very well an set up a bond between the thread and the blank. Once again, that is for most of the color preservers out there. There are some that are lacquer based that will penetrate and create adhesion, but the water based just doesn’t do a very good job of it. I think most folks will tell you that if you don’t use enough of the color preserver, you will also get some bleeding and color variations in the finished wraps as well after the epoxy goes on. Quite frankly, I can’t think of a single rod manufacturer out there today that is using color preserver on its wraps, but I am sure that is a cost savings issue more than anything else…eliminate a step, save a buck…or maybe 2 or 3!!
In no way am I even close to Leo can do. However my 2cents, I always use cloor preserver. The rods Ive done havent been fished that much and mayby problems will arise. For now I will continue to use it. I dont feel ready to try transperant wraps yet :lol:
Thanks for your comments. As far as factory rods go, I can see the time savings by removing the CP step in finishing. I also think that the factory rods are built to fish, and there is little originality in the thread work, so there’s nothing to really highlight on the factory rod. After all, that’s why the custom builder exists at all. The CP I’m using thins with alcohol, so I think it fits into your OK catagory.
I plan on developing some degree of competency with thread work, and plan on having that work on display…not faded into the blank. That’s just my preference.
fishbum, I’ll give you a call some evening and get the “CP 101” from you. Thanks for the offer.
Here’s my point about hiding the beauty of wrapping and color display:
BEFORE COATING
AFTER COATING
I won’t waste my time next time of including green and yellow banding, just to have it wash into the background. It was good practices developing narrow banding, but it’s all lost w/o CP.
Sometimes you can deliberately omit color preserver because you want the darker color that results. I have done this in cases where I wanted the thread to come out matching the color of the blank with good results.
If the understated look is what the builder is after then leaving out the CP is obvious. I guess I should have stated that I. personally, like the look of the original thread colors, especially where fine banding is taking place.
I’m going to look for a couple of spools of NCP thread and see if I like that look. Anyone have any pics they can show using NCP threads?
I was told many years ago not to use CP as it did not bond the threads to the rod as well as the straight epoxy. Common sense says that is likely true - the epoxy definitely makes a tighter bond.
However with that said there have been times I liked the look of the thread and wanted to preserve it. So I did. I have also kept and used those rods for many years. I have yet to have one go bad on me.
I have come to the conclusion that yes without color preserver the bond will last longer but even with color preserver the wraps will last longer than my lifetime!
Panfisher, I like your thinking. If you inspect your rod when cleaning it, any problems should be apparent and can be fixed easily. Unless you are in the business of building rods (which I’m not planning on getting into any time soon), I don’t see it as being a problem. I plan on building rods to give away and for my personal use.
I checked further into this subject, and found that a couple of thinned coats of CP prior to the final epoxy coat should provide good adhesion. Obviously, multi layers of thread would be a different story, but for single layer work I don’t see a problem.
I’m still going to look for a couple of spools of NCP to try out.
Joe what I was saying is I peronaly never used the stuff, because I like the look of no cp finished wraps.
But if you want cp thats alright, Its your rod made to suite your taste, thats why we all like custom rod building.
That said I dont think cp will affect your wraps negitivly, and if you used cp the finish will work like you didnt use cp. I believe this because I just took off a guide on a rod that I didnt use CP on, the finish never soak all the way down to the blank, It just makes a coating over the thread.
I have restored/rebuilt/refinished a number of older bamboo rods, some of which are more than 50 years old and some which used color preserver. To date I have not yet seen a wrap failure that I could attribute to CP.
I have used CP, or not, based on what I wanted the wraps to look like, and never found bonding to be an issue. I have used the water based CP’s and Aerogloss lacquer. They both work but look different. Usually I like the Aerogloss based on looks.
I thin all CP quite a bit for the first few coats and apply it w/ a dubbing needle. I apply it sparingly and work it INTO the thread. Penetration is the key if you don’t want blotchy results. Two or three coats, thinned and another one or two full strength, does take a bit of time, but it takes a LOT less time than stripping it down and wrapping it again because of a bad CP job.
AgMD
