Color of insect egg sacks

I posted this question on “troutnut” forum where a lot of folks who study entomology post. I asked if there were a list of the color of female insect egg sack colors by insect order.
The moderator did not believe such a list exists, but granted that it would be useful.

You see folks tying caddis patterns, for example, with green colored imitations of egg sacks…you see the same pattern with yellow butts…you see the same pattern with orange butts.

On my recent trip, I found salmon flies with orange eggs. Many patterns have black butts.

I have left the water following a heavy return of female caddis egg layers and seen my waders heavily covered with tiny green ova.

It would seem that a chart/list of the color of female ova by insect species would be quite helpful for the tier/fisher.

Byron,

Interesting question. I have seen female caddis with bright red egg sacks on the Missouri River. I always figured the ‘Hot-butt Caddis’ fly was just for adding some red to the fly but they really do exist.

I did a search for ‘aquatic insect eggs by color’ and didn’t really come up with a whole lot. It does seem that land based insects have a huge range of colored eggs.

Keep on asking and searching, you may find the answer, but I suspect it may be just a regional answer and not cover the whole aquatic insect world.

Larry —sagefisher—

Larry,
I rather think it is genus specific. However, I did read a line in Schweibert’s book (one of them) that suggested color of their diet might have an influence.

I’ve seen salmon flies with black egg sacks, but never seen ones with orange eggs.

John,
Everything I read says they are olive black. But, I recall getting orange ones on my hands when handling. Maybe my memory is playing tricks?

Interesting question but of fairly limited application, I would imagine. The few patterns I do use with prominent egg sacks (stones & caddis) featured do not work significantly better than the ones without. Just as well because it is bad enough to have to juggle size and color of a pattern, and make room for all the variants in my boxes, without having to additionally ‘worry’ about the proper color of the eggs. YMMV.

Of course the egg sacks are associated with females returning to ovipositor. I believe when this is occurring, flies with egg sacks will definitely provide the advantage
IMHO, as they say…

Byron,

i think egg sack colors definitely will make a difference in your catch rates , but it may be for reasons beyond just the egg sack color. my local river has an outstanding caddis hatch in the spring, both green caddis and American grannom’s, and they bpth come off at the same time. the American grannom has a green egg sack and the green caddis has a red egg sack, but this is not the biggest difference.

the American grannom is what I would call a surface egg layer. when they are laying eggs, you will see them hovering over the water, dipping down to the water surface, depositing their eggs and then rising above the water again. youll see them doing this repeatedly, dipping down to the waters surface, touching their egg sack/tail to the water surface then rising again.

the green caddis, the one with the red egg sack, actually dives below the water surface and deposits its eggs on the

John,
Thanks for that. I knew some drop eggs and some dive. These and color could easily be in a simple chart

Skittering Caddis patterns for the “droppers”, and conventional egg sacked patterns for the divers.

I find it far more important to fish a wet fly when dealing with the divers than to worry about an egg sac.

Which is not to say that I never fish a Greentail during the grannom hatch.

Byron,

F.Y.I. Scroll down:
[ul]
[li]* Dark Grey body – Fl. Yellow/Green egg (Brachycentrus)* Olive body – Orange egg (Hydropsyche)[/li]* Tan body – Yellowish Orange egg (Glossosoma)

  • Brown body - Red egg
  • Green body - Lt. Orange egg (Rhyacophila)

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/060302fotw.php
[/ul]
PT/TB

The problem with that is that the colors of the body that you associated with each genus isn’t even always correct. Brachycentrus appalachia, for example is called the apple caddis because it’s body is the color of a Granny Smith apple, not dark grey. (Although, yes, it has a green egg sac.) And the most common Glossosoma in my area is the little black caddis, which is, not surprising black, not tan.

This just compounds the problem that most people just differentiate caddis flies based on body color (“Tan caddis”, “Little Black Caddis” ,etc) with no idea where they belong taxonomically.

FWIW, I’ve probably caught more trout, including some fish over 20", swinging a Dark Hendrickson wet or Waterhen Bloa during the apple caddis hatch than I have by any apple green pattern with an egg sac. (Again, not that the latter doesn’t work, but I try to limit myself to carrying only a few hundred different patterns ;).)

Red:
I was going to ask if you tie/fish a soft hackle with an egg sack?

Sort of a diving Caddis pattern?

From FAOL. Fly of the week

as to the number of flies carried:

I tend to carry patterns reflecting the hatches underway, just ended, anticipated to start. So, if salmon flies are a month past, I probably wouldn’t carry them, etc., etc.

Someone told me they wouldn’t like the Downs chest box I use. The smaller fly drawers carry about 10 flies in each bin. There are 15 bins in these drawers…that would be 150 flies My Downs has two such drawers…so 350 small dries.

There are two drawers of larger bins having 8 bins each…each bin could hold a number of nymphs r large dries each…

Probably easily 400-500 flies if desired.

I, personally only carry less than 100 flies at a time. I can easily carry egg sac caddis as well as non-egg caddis flies for the caddis Species I expect to come across.

Yeah, I tie the Greentail as listed in Pritt’s North Country Flies. One year, I decided just for the heck of it to fish nothing but the recommended patterns for that book for each month of the year. Now Pritt was writing for the River Wharfe in Yorkshire in 1885, where I was fishing a river that arises in York County, PA, circa 2008, but I still had an excellent season. The Greentail certainly caught fish during the grannom hatch.

Here’s the original dressing:

33. GREENTAIL (Grannon Fly). Hook1.
WINGS.- Hackled with a feather from the inside of a Woodcock’s wing, or from a Partridge’s neck, or from under a Hen Pheasant’s wing.
BODY.- Lead coloured silk, twisted with a little fur from a Hare’s face.
TAIL.- Green silk, wrapped over lower part of body.

(A “1” sized hook is the equivalent of a modern 14). I’ve used both woodcock and partridge at one time or another, both seem to work.

As to number of flies, I think I once counted carrying about 900, with a backup supply in my car of almost the same number. I’m seriously trying to cut down; when I go for a swim, I have to dry out 20 some boxes.

The two Grannom that I most frequently imitate are B. occidentalis and B americanus. The first is the Mother’s Day Hatch that appears on Sierra waters May - July and the second, which appears in the Fall during September and October. Both have green eggs sacs. My son, who fishes the waters of the Catskills, would run into B. appalachia. The body color of B. occidentalis can vary from dark gray to almost black. B americanus body color is a lighter shade of grey…

This goes into the Glossosoma we see here in the West. Ralph Cutter and Craig Matthews probably know more about these Caddis than most entomologists:

http://flyfishingtraditions.blogspot.com/2014/04/glossosoma-caddis-saddle-case-maker.html
The Brown-ish Sparkle Pupa in the above article is one of my experimental ties…

PT/TB

Yeah, there are members of each of those families that are the color listed, but my point was that you can’t identify the family by color. B. appalachia is the apple caddis, for example.

Red,
Where is most of your fishing? You carry 900 flies at any given time?

Your comment is why I would like to see a chart by species. Unlike the member who says “Trout don’t speak latin”, entomologists do use latin names in order to avoid confusion. We, if we can’t recall the latin name, can then use a more common name.

I have no problem with using the Latin names; it usually avoids confusion. It’s just that most people can’t recognize insects down to species level, and even if you can, one that you’ve never seen before always seems to pop up when you least expect it.

Clearly, I have no need of carrying 900 flies. That’s flies, not different patterns – I’ve probably got 30 Partridges and Oranges in my vest at moment, for example. (And will probably need to tie more before next year.)

My box of sulfur dries probably has 100 flies – Catskill style, parachutes, comparaduns and spinner patterns, sizes 14 through 18, but then again sulfur season here can start as early as late April and usually lasts into early July. (The same box doubles as a PMD box when I get to go west.) I probably don’t need to have that box in my vest 12 months of the year, but I do. (It’s not impossible to see sulfurs on one of the limestone creeks I fish even in winter.)

As to where I fish, I fish a tailwater called Gunpowder Falls at least once a week, and then branch out from there to the PA limestone streams and mountain brooks, and then where ever else I can get to: the Catskills, Montana, etc.

What can I say? My name is Bob, and I’m a fly-aholic.

To a round of applause: “welcome, Bob”

I am glad entomologists, and many fishers, use the Latin name of insect species. It provides clarity.

It also allows one to “look up” lots of info on a given insect if you’re not familiar with one.