Catch and Release Study

I noticed it said that Research permits were provided by the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, this is the same Ministry that banded Bear hunting in Ontario a few years back and now need to study why there are so many bear reports and how to handle them!

Do you all know what is a stressor of fish is, ME, maybe I should be studied , have a research team follow me for a few months (winter months only) and then at the conclusion of the study, lets say end March, have them publish a Friggen REPORT stating that I did not harm a single fish so that that means fish are not harmed or stressed by humans. then lets have that report as the finite report, the last darn report on Catch and Release and fish stressing by Fly Fishermen/women ever written…

Then force all the research teams study something really important like how to put DShock out of a pass time, by getting all the idiots, who drop litter on our streets and rivers to come back and pick it up, so DShock can go fishing more…

Doug does this sound good to you… :lol: :wink: :idea:

HOLY COW RAY!!,
That was Excellent! :lol: Some people might think I’m against Scientists and people that do Studies, but I’m not! If a Scientist or Study person is Happy doing their jobs, then that’s Great! I would much rather CLEAN a Stream than do a Study on it. Stats are something that some people can get into, but I’m too practical, because Filling my Life with paper work, statistics, minute details, would not be productive for ME.
Ray, About the Idiots that throw their trash on the ground instead of the Can, It’s very SIMPLE, your Parents lower the boom on you for littering or they DON’T! Also I have learned that there are sneaky, polite Litter Bugs, since they like to HIDE their trash in the bushes! :shock: Out of Sight, Out of Mind is their philosophy.
If a person’s Parents teach them to be Responsible, then they might grow up to be a productive citizen.
Doug

Doug Dude (DShock)

I agree I just want them to be happy doing their jobs by studying me and my stressing affects on fly caught trout for the winter, I want to be part of a real important study.

Honestly I think that some things can be studied to death! To me it is just an angle to get more money to waste on agreed facts. I know I am not supposed to say the “P” word Politics (tions) but just like them you know :wink:

As for the garbage prob I totally agree it has more than a lot to do with the parents, Ann and I have never let our boys litter and we now catch them picking it up even when we are not looking.

So yes I am typing with one hand as the other pats me on the back and pats Ann on the back also. 8)

Ray,
Children are a reflection of us and how we raised them. I’m eternally grateful my Son Joe is a responsible person. It makes all that hard work worth it! All the stress, heartache and pain. At least it wasn’t as bad as Job had it! :smiley:
Now BACK to our regularly scheduled Topic!
Doug

[quote=“DShock”]

Martin,
I’m working on it!! :smiley: Did you think my Rant went over the Edge??? I’ve been holding all that in for 35 yrs.
Thanks,
Doug[/quote]

Doug,

I don’t think that your rant went over the edge, I just wish that there were more people like you all around. We can agree or not on something but it is good and healthy to try to have an educated opinion about different topics. That is why I wish there were more like you all around. I’m teaching and working in research at the U of Iowa… and you can not imagine the amount of people here (and in any other campus) that don’t care for anything… they are like plants. Liquid (beer for humans, water for plants) is all what they need to keep going (to nowhere…) :lol:

On the other hand, the scientific community has like any other community good, average and bad people. We are also part of the society and the people in the scientific community is the same than the rest of the society… After all science is a tool to create knowledge. How we use this knowledge is up to each one of us in the society.
Money for research come from many different sources, the biggest one is probably taxes (NHI, NSF). Farmaceutical companies, NASA, US army and so on. There are many different interested parts on science, but I still perceive that the bast mayority of scientist do it for the knwoledge itself. This curiosity and wonderig of how things happen, work, etc. is was keep science alive and the scientific community reasonalbe healthy (but it could be better).

Martin :smiley:

Good lord, I don’t see how some of you guys have time for all these posts…I’ll wade in one more time (with my waders on).

Review:

The original post referred to a short blurb about a highly focused research study that investigated how much stress individual bonefish encounter when caught and released. Remember almost all the bonefishermen are catch and release anglers. The study’s result could help to inform the bonefish angling community so that they can maximize their use of the bonefish resource. The purpose of the original post was to provide FAOL readers with a short summary of a current research topic in the conservation field. Hopefully, some of the data collected in the study would be of use to you as you make your own decisions regarding how you catch and release.

My position: I think that every personal decision like participating voluntarily in catch and release should be an informed decision–backed with data if possible. One would expect those decisions to change as new data comes in. For example, in my youth my grandfather explained that you’ll never fish out a pond. At the time we belonged to a fishing club with three ponds where our family were pretty much the only ones fishing for largemouth bass (central KS). We were addicts, fishing 3-4 times a week. We kept all of the “keepers” to eat and watched as over the next 3 years our catch got smaller and less numerous. When the ponds were drained for rehab we all expected to find the smart and uncatchable “Big Berthas” but we actually found very few bass left and they were all very small. We had had a devastating impact on the ponds. The data spoke louder than my grandfather and I started changing how I fished for bass in small ponds. Eventually, I came real close to becoming a fisheries researcher.

More importantly, I think that every agency or public decision needs to be informed by the data. We are the public and those agencies work for us. They certainly mess things up–especially when they don’t pay attention to the data or when they look for an expedient way around “inconvenient data”

Where does the data come from—from the studies that have been so flogged in this thread. Progress in fisheries management, bee keeping, climate prediction, bear managment, Toyota pickups, flyrods, fishing flies, fish hooks etc. is incremental but generally in a positive direction because of the nature of scientific studies. Remember, they put their work out for critique and I can tell you from personal experience finding data that goes against your favorite hypothesis is not always fun but it is always productive.

I do have the study from the first post now if anyone really wants to know the gory details. One line of discussion on this thread has tried to look at financing. Here’s the acknowlegements from the study:

“This project was supported by grants from Bonefish and Tarpon Unlimited (in
particular, we thank Aaron Adams, Jim Trice, Tom Davidson,
and Russ Fisher) and the Charles A. and Anne Morrow
Lindbergh Foundation. …”

As you can see it was primarily funded from B and T Unlimited and the Lindbergh foundation with minor institutional support that I’ve left out. Actually, when looking at the validity of any claim to knowledge I look at the history of the researcher–his/her papers and work and their support but the support is usually the last thing I consider unless the study is making a claim that is really not supported or counter to the prevailing ideas in the field. Remember, I said these folks are lucky because they get to do what they love for a job–they generally do it very well.

So to wrap this up. My plea is to not dimiss a study or an agency decision out of hand, use the data reported to critique the conclusions or the methods but use the data. As is often said in science:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts–let the data speak.

BW

BW,
Your Grandpa story is an example of how we become aware of the truth for the first time. When I was a kid, my Dad had all kinds of crazy beliefs about how to catch fish (Bait Fisherman) Learning to Fly Fish brought me closer to reality. Dad never got ‘Onboard’, he is still happily thinking about the Old Days.
It’s JUST me, but doing a Study about stressing Bonefish?? First of all, there isn’t much option about whether you release a Bonefish! What happens if the Study decides the Bonefish are stressed by C&R?? Only fish for them on Tuesday’s??
BW, I’m all for helping fishes, but WHAT does a Study do for them?? You either fish for a species of fish or you DON’T! Another thing is Bonefish live in tough environment and C&R is the least of their problems. (in my opinion)
Your right about how important it is to form an opinion with the FACTS.
Thanks,
Doug

[quote=“DShock”]

BW,
Your Grandpa story is an example of how we become aware of the truth for the first time. When I was a kid, my Dad had all kinds of crazy beliefs about how to catch fish (Bait Fisherman) Learning to Fly Fish brought me closer to reality. Dad never got ‘Onboard’, he is still happily thinking about the Old Days.
It’s JUST me, but doing a Study about stressing Bonefish?? First of all, there isn’t much option about whether you release a Bonefish! What happens if the Study decides the Bonefish are stressed by C&R?? Only fish for them on Tuesday’s??
BW, I’m all for helping fishes, but WHAT does a Study do for them?? You either fish for a species of fish or you DON’T! Another thing is Bonefish live in tough environment and C&R is the least of their problems. (in my opinion)
Your right about how important it is to form an opinion with the FACTS.
Thanks,
Doug[/quote]

I totally agree, with both of the above, now after Green Piece got the seal hunts stopped on the east coast, it was not long after that we started noticing a decrease in the numbers of salmon returning to the rivers, now I think with the increased numbers of salmon fishers in the Atlantic ocean (seals) that had the same effect of us not practicing C&R. But who would listen to a bunch of Salmon fishermen we don’t have any degrees or funding.

WE WERE JUST THE GUYS ON THE WATER 400 DAYS OF THE YEAR!!!

And DShock to me it sounds like you might be very blessed also, glad to meet somebody (in a fashion) that has some of the same values as I, and sees the world in the same vain as I do. If they let this old solider get his passport and if I can convince my wife that you all will not steal here and make her work in a White Spot if we go to the USA for a visit. I would consider it a honer and pleasure to cast a few with ya and down a few also, if you do that sort of thing…

Hay you being a man of the world, what does this face thingy do :mrgreen: or should I ask Jack or one of your evil twins?

Ray sends

[quote=“flyfishfairwx”]

And DShock to me it sounds like you might be very blessed also, glad to meet somebody (in a fashion) that has some of the same values as I, and sees the world in the same vain as I do. If they let this old solider get his passport and if I can convince my wife that you all will not steal here and make her work in a White Spot if we go to the USA for a visit. I would consider it a honer and pleasure to cast a few with ya and down a few also, if you do that sort of thing…

Hay you being a man of the world, what does this face thingy do :mrgreen: or should I ask Jack or one of your evil twins?

Ray sends[/quote]
Ray,
It’s easy to know how blessed I am with Joe, all I have to do is look at the behavior of other people’s kids. I’m still confused why Joe is 6 ft. 4 inches to my 6 ft. 1 inch??? :shock: He’s so good looking, the women chase him! :lol:
Ray, I’m the LAST (Low Man On The Totem Pole) to ask about smilies! I’m just glad I know how to flip a light switch!
I would WAIT to fish with me until I get my fishing career back on track. Better days ahead!! :smiley:
Doug

I am sure happy that somebody made a few $ studying C&R. But I was born and raised in south west P.A. Fish and game stock trout for april opening day.If you go to 60% of the streams at the end of july to late aug alot are dried up dead trout laying in them and some are so low water temp is so high thay died. C&R is good on some water but not others.

Standstall

Sounds like you have a real problem in PA, somebody should study the water(less) streams, I am not being mean or anything, if the streams historically had water and now are in bad shape then it is time for action, not only studies. I hate the thought that the system (read the MAN) is stocking the lakes to take the focus off the problems with the rivers? Maybe hoping folks will say "OHH well we have the stockers in the lakes who cares what is going on in the streams. Plse tell me that that is not the case!

Hello

The streams that I am talking about I Fly fished with my father from age 7 until he died. the streams were like that all my life. I am retired and living in arkansas with the North Fork and White rivers Just a few miles away. I pratace C&R with the native trout But keer 3 or 4 HATCHERY TROUT for MOMMA and she loves them KEEP MOMMA HAPPY.

Standstall