Recently I was at a fly fishing camp where I took some instruction from a guy who was both a very accomplished competition caster, as well as being a popular fly fishing guide.
Of course he was a fabulous caster, fast and accurate, casting effortlessly in all sorts of wind with stunning accuracy. We talked a lot about rod actions, and what basically surprised me was the way he referred to fishing rods or casting rods.
He had magnificent fast action rods, the brands we discuss on these forums, but he would only use them for competition casting. He states they are useless to fish with. Conversely he used fairly slow action and soft rods for fishing, claiming the benefits of softly landing dry flies; lighter tippets used due to the energy absorption of the rod on a strike; better fighting ability; much easier to keep a fish on; more forgiving in fishing conditions; and so on and so on.
This is from a guy who really knows what he is talking about. (Several books, competition titles, national team and $700/day fee)
Interesting to me - any thoughts in favour or against?
I’m nowhere nearly as accomplished, but would agree from my experience. My style of fishing doesn’t require long casts; in fact I try to position myself to avoid having to cast too far. I feel I get more hookups and better presentation/control. That probably speaks to my lack of skill, but a more moderate action is much more relaxing to cast, and that too is part of the pleasure of fly fishing.
I think my answer would change if I did a lot of fishing where I needed to cast long distances, but frankly, I can do most of my fishing within 30 feet, 50 at the most. And I can cast farther than that, but just prefer not to if I can help it.
Just because something works for him does not mean it will work for you. Often said about many things, including fly fishing: Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone has one, and they generally all stink.
Find your own preferences and don’t be overly swayed by some dogmatic statement made by some ‘X-Spurt’.
My fresh water rods are pretty much all slow to medium action. Mostly old glass. Not only for the reasons stated, but because the slower action and resulting slower casting tempo is a more relaxing way to fish…
After all, that’s why we’re out there.
I was at a casting clinic myself recently with Bob Clouser.
It was a very informative demonstration about casting with weight
One thing Bob said that stuck with me;
“The only people who will tell you that you can’t hook a fish at 80 feet are those that can’t cast 80 feet”
There is a lot more to fly fishing than just over hand casting.
I agree with the fast rod versus slow rod statement. In my experience fast rods are not effective tools for fishing. They cast a far line well but don’t load to mend and are harder to load up close, particuarly when a double haul or false cast is not an option. Slow rods allow more room for error when on the water, where fishing is on my mind not casting. They let you take your time and load easily at the same time. I can cast a slow rod fishing distance with a single back cast, NO FALSE CASTING. I usually need to perform at least ONE FALSE CAST with a fast rod. To me that means wasted time that my fly isn’t in the water. The softer rods roll and spey cast better for me and allow me to shoot some line into a mend (try double hauling a mend) to continue a long drift.
I fish the salt a lot, usually every night, where the only thing recomended are the super fast rods. Sure they let you carry 70+ feet of flyline in the air before you have to shoot but they are not as good as soft slow rods at line control once the line hits the water. I like to grease line, dead drift, and swing my flies in the current, whether it be a tidal river or a wave. I am a technique junky. I love fly fishing because of what I can do to my fly after the fly has hit the water. The soft slow rods to me are better tools to do that with.
And yes I can double haul quite well and carry a long line in the air. I just hate doing while I am trying to catch fish.
It has been quite a while since I cast in competition, but I have to agree with what was said. I still find some rods are better for casting and some better for fishing.
I guess he never fishes in places where “fast and accurate, casting effortlessly in all sorts of wind with stunning accuracy”; is necessary!
Hey, I can cast far and all of that sort of stuff but I only fly fish for trout on small to medium streams so I tend to prefer his “fishing” rods.
But if I was not fishing for trout with light tippets and I needed to quickly pop a cast to a cruising fish beyond “normal casting range”; I’d opt for one of his “casting” rods. In other words it depends how you fish.
And as far as fish playing ability; I think we all tend to stroke our own egos at times with the “bend in the rod” thing. It’s funny how “un-stiff” a stiff rod becomes when you catch a BIG fish.
My dear friend (who is a really good trout fisherman)does exactly what Ol’ Blue does: Avoids the long cast, and positions himself as close to where he wants to be without spooking. Says overall it ensures accurate casts; better mending; and a good hook-up.
I’m STILL in the ‘Brad Pitt School of Flyfishing’ ; the LOOOOOONG ‘River Runs Through It’ cast that looks beautiful (when my casts actually DO connect.) I admit, I can slap the water better than anyone!
Hook-ups that I’ve had long distance, have also been releases…AT LONG DISTANCE!
And really, most of the fish I’ve caught have been within 20-30 yards, which really is the average cast of most people fishing. I believe it’s a practical distance as well.
I have a medium fast rod and a Crystal River (YEAH! TOP END ROD! HA!) which is like a willow (getting the rod is a story in itself). And I have to say the the feel of a slow action rod feels great…not TOO slow. I think it’s just because you can really feel the load. My mentor had a TFO on the slow-medium end and it felt great! He also thought that what ‘feels good’ all depends on what action rod you started on to begin with. Could he be right?
I DO find it hard to drive the fly in adverse conditions on a slow rod, though. Maybe just me?
So, maybe there is some validity to a casting rod vs. fishing rod. One specializes in distance, the other in presentation. Perhaps?
Here’s a question to Gringo’s:
Does anyone bring a SELECTION of rods when they go fishing just in case…?
“And really, most of the fish I’ve caught have been within 20-30 yards”
My thoughts on this are that I feel everyone will find the right rod for their style of fishing after they have been fly fishing for several years and once they find that rod, they will be able to make statements to support why they chose the rod they did and it would all be true for them. We are all not the same height, weigh the same, cast the same, fish the same, arms are different length, hands are different sizes, etc, etc., and all of this comes into play when casting and fishing. We must find our happy medium and that may be a different rod length and action than what the next person is using and no one will be using the “wrong” rod. We will all be using the rod and action that best suits us and that is why there are different lengths and actions and that is great. Everyone just needs to understand that there is not a “right” or “wrong” rod. Just different strokes for different folks. For instance, I agree with everything that the “pro” stated and I know that if I use his recommendations, that I will see the points he is making, but, I am just more comfortable doing it my way that I have gotten use to and that “way” may not be the “right” way, but, live is too short for me to start all over again. I really think that given time, most will come around to fishing the way the “pro” stated on their own and not realize that they have changed. As we age, we make changes to better fit our style at that time. We may start out with fast action and love it and then decide that it is time to slow down and this causes us to change to a little slower rod. I know that I love fast action rods and have been told that my casting style is more fitted to a fast action rod. In the past year I have noticed that I prefer to slow down a little, but, a medium rod does not fit my casting style yet. I now use a Sage FLi which is still rated as “fast” but I feel it is not as “fast” as my XP and it seems to fit my pace better. Over time that will probably change. It is all about changes in our ages, bodies, casting styles, etc. You just need to recognize when you need to change and make it.
When I was younger I could wade with the best of them . Now with age and osteoarthritis in both knees I pretty much have to fish from shore. This means In some cases I have to cast further. Its kind of a trade off. I’d prefer to be standing in mid stream casting 30 feet but actually have to make a 60 ft cast to the same water instead. So I have drifted to a bit faster action rod for distance. I think as my casting improves I may drift back to a slower rod cause I like the action better. Yes I am working on my double haul. Its a bit rough but its getting there.
There are the Rajeffs, Gunns, Gunnerson, etc (please forgive me if I misspelled any names)
They use a special rod and line for distances casting and around here, everone knows those rods are not a great Fishing rod. They are even faster that a lot of the tip flex rods on the market.
That is why Echo came out with the two tips. One for distance and one for accuracy.
A faster action rod does have it’s place with wind, and big flies.
I have found myself shifting away from the super fast rods I have, and paid so much for, in favour of some nice moderate little sticks.
This guys comments just made me think about what I was doing. You will all be familiar with the scenario where you meet up with a few fellars for a camp or fish and somebody has the newest and latest stick, and the “mines bigger than yours” thing starts up. The guys are out on the paddock casting away to see which rod can go further.
Now what I am thinking about is “what’s the point?” Is it not then more important to have the soft presentation and mending ability and the fighting ability of the softer rods we all mentioned?
Just as an aside the guy I am talking about did a demo with somebody “playing the fish” on the fast and the slow rods: It was amazing how easily the fast rods broke the fish off the tippet in comparison to the others.
Gringo;
Great attitude about rods and what YOU like. Because, to ME, when all the “Mine is bigger then YOURS” crap is over and done with, YOU have to fish the rods of your choice, no one else.
So, I learned to cast a 90’ fly line, in its entirety, but so what? I can’t SEE MY FLY at that distance, so what’s the point? (let alone, a “gentle slurp”). Unless I’m doing salt, there’s not a river in Oregon, I’d want to fish, where even an 80’ cast would do my much good. I’d much rather practice my stealth at “creeping up and stalking my prey” to get in a good 30 or MAYBE at times, a needed 60 foot cast.
But, those can be done with a soft stick just as easily and still retain much better line control.
It’s a “Ford-Chevy-Dodge Argument”, no one wins. Fish the sticks of your choice and enjoy your time on the water!!
We use different rods for different places. One requires 40 to 60 foot casts of a size 18 dry. Open country, no trees, and the wind often runs 15 to 25 mph. We use a very stiff rod there. You can’t break a fish off if you can’t get the cast out to him. Sure it would be lovely to play these 24 inch trout on a nice cushy rod, but I can’t cast one of those very far into a real wind. The stiff rods are actually less work than trying to whip a willow into the wind. Other places a progressive action is required, short to medium casts and a one false cast delivery.
I’m with JC on this one. Different rods for big, for little, for salt, for browns at night, for steel head in the winter, for little secret places, for big wide places. I have never cast in competition but I have some long stiff rods. I love to cast them all, big and small, and in the summer I get a couple at a time out on the lawn and glory in their differences. They are all fun. Its just a pain to cary five or six out on the river with you. So you pick one or two that sort of fit the river and your mood. I have never met a rod I didn’t think was great. Just some are greater than others.
I completely agree with “rods for casting & rods for fishing”. I normally fish at distances ranging from 15 to about 50 feet with the same 6wt. moderate action graphite rod. By double hauling and working at it I can usually cast(shoot) all 90 feet of line, 4 or 5 times out of 10. Not that I fish at that distance, or need to. I also fish a 1, 2 or 3wt. at approximately the same distances although I can’t cast the entire fly line with these rods. A moderate action rod is the fastest action that I enjoy fishing with. I own a fast action, tip action I mean, Orvis 9ft. 6wt. fly rod that I can cast(shoot) all the fly line and 20, 30, sometimes 50+yrds. of backing. I build a few rods, do some rod repairs and teach a few people to cast a fly rod. My opinion is based on 40+ years of fly fishing and approx.12 to 15 years of teaching basics (free) to prospective fly fishers. Admittedly, this is partly a subjective subject, partly. After hearing (marketing) for many years that a faster rod is better, some folks start to believe it. Think politics, “The Big Lie”.
The original posters “expert” uses faster rods for accuracy. The first time I cast a fast rod I was amazed at the accuracy. They track better, no wobble. I’m in the Rocky Mtn area, so a lot of bigger water and wind. Did I mention wind? And I’m not even in Wyoming. I fish 490-4 Sage XP. I gotta say, this “expert” who did a demo landing fish with a fast and slow rod and broke a bunch of fish off on the fast rod is pulling your leg. It’s the angle of the dangle. There is an angle where no fish can break you off (unless it’s bigger than you) and if the “expert” doesn’t know where that is, than he doesn’t deserve the title.
Also for stillwaters, I throw streamers a ways with a haul, works better on a faster rod. Accuracy doesn’t matter so much.
Now, after thinking about it, my Ovis superfine rocky mountain 9’ 6wt is for sale.
