I do a lot of ffing with my 3 or 4 wt for bass and blue gill with subsurface or weighted flies but often times they seem so heavy and my arm gets tired and my casting gets sloppy. I try to use nothing bigger than a size ten wooly bugger (for example). I fish about 3 or 4 times a week so I do not think that it is stammina. Could it be that I have changed my casting and not realized it? Could I be forcing things? Any help would be most helpful. Also has anyone ever used a braided leader before and do you like them.
This could be due to a number of different things. My best recommendation to you is to have a buddy watch you fish and give you pointers on your casting, or even have someone film you while you cast. If you don’t look like you are casting effortlessly, there is either something wrong in your technique or your outfit may be unbalanced (leader too long, flies too heavy, etc.) Are you false casting a lot?
My first gut response would be to go up to a 6wt and let the rod do the work, force yourself not to “power” your casts. I am a believer that you actually use less effort with higher weight rods.
Someone is sure to post that they throw #6 Clousers all day long on a 1 or 2 wt, using 6x tippet, without any problems. But with that said, fromt time to time,I throw small weighted flys with my 3 wt. It sounds like you could be forcing your cast. Also, remember to use the right leader for the flys you are using. For a #8 or #10, that would be a 3x. Also a shorter 7 1/2’ leader helps.
Sage words, get a second opinion. Standing a bit turned to one side and carefully watching the entire cast can be good as well.[/quote]
“Sage words?” I’ve been doing that for 40 yrs!! :lol:
Doug
First…Welcome to the finest fly fishing, fly tying, fly anything site on the web. Feel free to ask any questions you may have and feel free to offer your knowledge. This site is all about sharing.
You have received some good advise on the first part of your post, but, no one has responded on your question on a braided leader.
I have never used a braided leader, but, have read several posts here on them and most people do not like them. The biggest complaint I have read is that when you cast them, they spray water out onto the surface. I make and use Furled Leaders and I really like them. The braided leaders have a hollow core that fills with water and that causes the spray when you cast it. A Furled Leader is very similiar to a rope when constructed and does not have a hollow core to hold water so it does not spray water when you cast it. I cannot voice any complaints with a Furled Leader. I really like them. You can create one from 6/0 tying thread and treat it just like you do your dry flies and it will float very well for fishing dry flies. I usually fish nymphs, wets, streamers and buggers and I make my Furled Leaders out of Vanish fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbon Furled Leaders really sink and carry your flies down deeper than a standard tapered mono leader. A Furled Leader really turns over your tippet and fly smoothly. I make my Furled Leaders 7 foot long and attach about 5 to 6 feet of tippet material and the leader will turn over everything very easily.
Hopefully, this helps with your questions and once again, welcome to FAOL.
I have a tendancy to want to throw bigger flies the moment I see or think I see a bigger fish in the area I’m fishing. If I’ve got a lighter rod, 3 or4 wt, I will typically open my casting loop a bit wider, by expanding the range of motion of my rod tip. The only thing about doing this is that you have to make sure that you have ample space in your back cast. “I throw a lot of size six and four Clousers with my four weight”. I will also use this method when switching to big bass bugs with a lighter rod. If you have a med-fast or fast action rod, you can also try changing your line weight, going up a number, as the heavier line will usually aid in punching more stout leaders out, resulting in minimal loss of energy, transferred from the rod, to help turn over the leader and fly.
Welcome JL,
you said "Could it be that I have changed my casting and not realized it? "
I think that if you did not change your casting that might be the problem. Bigger flies need more energy to move the fly and may take more time to reach the end of their travel due to extra wind resistance.
When you cast, see if you feel the line coming to the end, then a bump after that, which is the fly coming to the end of its travel. If so, you need to wait for the bump.
If you can double haul or single haul that might help too.
The heaviest rod I have is a Sage XP 590; that’s my heavy bass rod. I use it for 1/0 Clousers, and bulky bass bugs in the lily pads, wood, etc. and strong windy days. Otherwise, it’s the 380XP or 486XP for the usual LMB, pickerel, bluegill, yellow perch, crappie…
Continue using and enjoying your 3-4 weights. There’s no need for 5,6,7 weight rods for what you describe as your usual fishing. Shorten your leaders for #8, #6 weighted wooly buggers and other streamers.
For example, with my 3wt. I use a 7.5’ 2X leader, cut back to 7’ and about 12" of 3X tippet for the fly.
anglerdave and ROR-EYE got it right on; open your cast slightly with heavier flies and you’ll have no trouble enjoying that 3wt.
Hi Jason,
Welcome to the best FF board in all of western Christendom!
You’ve been offerred very good advice and all but your last question has been answered.
Pay attention to WarrenP’s response. He knows whereof he speaks. Furled leaders are wonderful (I’ve used some of his and some of my own) and a tad heftier rod would help.
Have I used braided leaders? Yes. And I didn’t like them. Too much spray, not as gentle as the furled leaders, just not in the same league. Learn to furl your own or find some, probably here at FAOL. Vendors such as Feather Craft also provide them. They’re wonderful.
Dudley, I would like to commend to your attention the book “Trout Eyes” by Tapply. He has a chapter that discusses the physics of light rods. I found it to be interesting and enlightening. I have not finished the book yet, but I have enjoyed what part of it I have read. It is an excellent “coffee shop book”. In fact, I generally enjoy what Tapply has written, including his murder mysteries.
With a 4wt and a #10 WB your arms shouldn’t tire easily. Try working on your casting and include some dbl. haul practice if need be.
Secondly, give a 7 1/2 leader a try. You might find it makes a good bit of difference. The casting practicing takes priority though. A 3 or 4wt rod should be a joy to toss for a long time.
Thanks for the links Jim, I’ve read them all before
Whenever this controversy comes up some one always points to this “expert”
Just last week I had a fish on that I couldn’t move with my rod
The fish was under the kayak and my rod was doubled over, probably close to the “high-stick” breaking point
Believe me, I was not concerned about the 15# tippet breaking
The only way I got the fish to move was by reaching out, grabbing the line and pulling
I shoulda had a bigger stick!
Even your expert says light rods should be used only in the proper conditions
In my experience conditions are rarely ideal
I often use a 3wt when I fish for river smallies, but when I fish for largemouth in the weed choked ponds we have around here I alway carry an 8wt
I been using an 8wt in the salt since the end of the spring migration.
I guess I’ll bump that up to a 9 or 10wt for the rest of the season
I tend to agree with you. I rarely use my 3wt for warm water. It’s a full flex rod and about the only time I use it is for bluegills and crappie in open water and smaller flys. In a pinch I have cast some #8 Red Foxie Clousers with it and did find that a shorter heavier leader made casting easier.
I am from the old school that believes in using the rod for the type of flys you are casting. Most of my smallmouth bass fishing is done with 9’ 6wt. And bluegills and small river fishing with a 8’ 5wt. Smallmouth in big rivers, largemouth in heavy cover and northerns call for the 8wt.
I always counter an emphatic, blanket dismissal of lighter rods with the evidence. Upon discovering Bill’s site, I was skeptical also, but, just like everything claimed here and elsewhere, I purchased a 1 wt. and experimented for myself. You see, many years ago (40+) I started fishing (spin, pluggin’) and fell into that industry driver crap of needing a certain outfit to catch a certain fish. Before I knew it, yep, you guessed it, my own tackle shop in the basement.
Then, nine years ago, a buddy talked me into trying fly…and, I’ve never looked back. However, I fell into that same mold, “gotta have an 8wt. for, gotta have a 5wt. for…blah, blah, blah.”
After many thousands of dollars worth of tackle and experimentation I’ve learned; “fundamentals”.
Anyway, I agree with you, in heavy grass/pads/wood, an 8wt. can be helpful. For that situation I use my Sage 580XP with 1X leader and 2X tippet. Works everytime. Get 'im out of the stuff and landed as quickly as possible, fly out and released with no harm done. Even stopped taking pictures to reduce the out of water time. THAT’S what kills, playing unneccessarily too long, and holding them out of the water with that S-E-G while the little woman fumbles for the camera to show the boys you caught a fish.
Jim
I’ve fly fished all my life.
While over the years I’ve read a great deal on the sport, my opinions are formed from my own personal experiences.
Opinions that I feel are no less valid than those of some “expert” on the internet.
For instance, I’ve never felt the need to spend thousands of dollars on equipment.
I learned my “fundamentals” as a child
Welcome to the warmwater BB. You’re asking your questions in a good place because this BB has the nicest group of people you will find anywhere. The only dumb question around here is the one that doesn’t get asked.
Just a couple of thoughts on your casting problem. I tend to agree with what everyone has said so far. You should be able to throw a weighted woolly bugger reasonably well with a four weight rod. I suspect that the problem is the change up from light weight flies (no weight flies actually) to a heavier fly. The weighted fly magnifies any timing errors that you may have in your casting stroke particularly rushing the forward cast before the backcast has straightened completely. Wait for that backcast to straighten and then wait a fraction of a second more for the fly to straighten out the leader. Also try to use a minimum amount of power throughout the whole cast. Overpowering either the backcast or the forward cast gets that extra weight flying around like a tether ball.
Since I’m in your neck of the woods (Anderson, SC), I have another suggestion for you. You are lucky to have an excellent fly shop in Greenville (Foothills Fly Fishing on Pleasantburg Drive just north of the Red Lobster). Chuck and Bill are both expert casters and will give you 20-30 minutes worth of instruction for free. The shop has a regular group that get together on Saturday morning to tie flies and tell lies. You sound like you would fit right right in. They’re open 8-6 on Monday through Saturday but the Saturday morning has a bunch of people local fly fishermen and you would have a chance to get lots of input on local conditions.
If you decide to go, introduce yourself around. I may be there. Good Fishing 8T