If we want to consider the asian carp in this thread, everyone on both sides of the great lakes would be glad somehow to remove all the fish they can—eat them, poison them, grind them into catfood or fertilizer or any other use. They have found dna proof that the have made it past the weir in Chicago Sanitary and Shipping Channel and made it into Lake Michigan. This is a bad news invasive species that threatens all of the great lakes sportfishing and commercial fishing. By their size, a 9 or 10 wt would be in order for a small one—anyone have a good algae fly?
Here in Wyoming a few fish have been introduced in recent times that have greatly affected the fishing. In Lake Yellowstone, lake trout were introduced. It has decimated the Cutthroat population.
In the western part of the state, Ling (Burbot, Freshwater Cod) have been introduced into a couple of the lakes, and have affected Kokanee Salmon populations.
Both fish are gamefish in other areas… but in both locations, if u catch one, they have policies in place to keep it or kill it.
Likewise, in the Potomac drainage area, I lived there when the Snakehead made its way into that system and quickly took over a few of the smaller lakes from LM Bass.
Some have to wonder what the Asian carp will do to the Great Lakes when it’s population becomes noticeable. Most likely, the great lakes will be undergoing a major transformation in the next 10 to 20 years.
Paul
Just a comment;
I would guess that most of the lakes where Carp are found are not native to the U.S. either! There has to be some type of population control in some waters, I suppose. I have heard that some places in the West require you to take all Brookies in order to protect the Cutts.
Things change.
Species expand their range. Other species die out or shrink. It’s the nature of life. Life finds a way.
We do need to look carefully at history in this instance. Man has never, not once, been able to stop the spread of another species. If a species is able to survive in an area, eventually it reaches that area. Way this whole things work, and it’s not up to us.
Some want to point at us and say that humans are to blame. But we are a part of nature, not gods hovering above it. To think that we could either stop this or cause this is the height of hubris. It was always going to happen, with or without us. Perhaps our ability to assist other species in spreading is one of our purposes in nature, like the honey bee helping the plants to pollenate. If it wasn’t us, though, there would be another medium of transfer.
Our planet is continually evolving. Our problem is not that we are altering nature, but that we are trying to keep nature from altering itself. A patently futile task.
Deal with the expansion of species. They aren’t going away regardless of what anyone wants, or what anyone may do. The so called destruction that they may cause is just how the world works. If the species that currently reside where the expanding species move are adversly effected, they will either adapt or perish. Way the world works.
And there will be some positives in the change. We’ll find them, in time, and adapt as we are made to do.
Eventually, it will us that are unable to adapt, and we will disapear. The world wil go on just fine without us.
Buddy
Buddy gets 10 pts just for using the phrase “height of hubris” in a sentence.
I like that, for some odd reason… 
Jeff, my understanding is that Virginia, at least, has embarked on a campaign of poinsoning, netting, and electro-shocking to remove primarily brown, but also rainbow, trout. This has been done in an attempt to promote native brookies. In some places and at certain times, all limits on browns were to be removed and anglers were not allowed to release any or they would be cited. I have read that browns up to 4 pounds were poisoned.
It is all a matter of values and what people are trying to do.
On a related note from another post, as for not being able to restrict the spread of species, try running that idea past a passenger pigeon.
Ed
I have to respectfully dissagree with Buddy’s view of species migration.
Yes, if a species moves to a new environment where it is able so thrive, it will. We only have to look at dutch elm disease, emerald ash borer, zebra mussels… the list goes on and on. To assume that a species will get to that new environment on its own just because it will be able to thrive there is blatently false. If this were the case we would expect to see polar bears attempting to migrate to Antartica and thriving there.
Yes, species do migrate and they do colonize new areas. However, in most cases this occurs over millenia not decades. With few exceptions, most invasive species arrived to their new area through the direct actions of humans. They would not be there without our “help”.
To assume that humans are not to blame for most invasive species or to assume that our purpose on this earth is to expand the range of other species is surely the “height of hubris”.
Kevin
Shorthaul:
The carp in the article is an entirely different carp from the one the thread is about. We have been talking about what is known as the European or German carp. The German carp has been in the “Lakes” for more than 100 years.
Carp are a blast to catch on the long rods.
The point was made browns,rainbow, crappies are no longler limited in their native ranges. True, but it should be remembered they were purposely introduced into waters too degraded to sustain the original species, brook char. Ironicly, where introduced into western waters the brookie is now considered invasive. Go figure.
I suspect the expansion of crappie range,(and walleyes) although man encouraged, might just as easily have occured naturally. Nature abhors a vacuum, and if a certain body of water will support a certain species of fish, they will come.
Brings up the old saying “One man’s trash is another man’s treasure”
Funny we call a species that takes over some waters Trash fish.
I have a video of Oliver Edwards fishing some of his home waters. He hooks into the Rainbow that is HUGE and any one of us would consider a trophy.
He referred to IT as a trash fish as these were Brown trout waters.
Fly Goddess: When I was a kid Utah still planted rivers with rainbows. We thought of them as trash fish that competed with the cutts. That was over 50 years ago and to this day when I catch a planted rainbow I think trash fish even though I know better.
Tim
While out in Yelowstone last summer, I noticed folks calling brook trout trash fish. Where I do most of my trout fishing (Smokey Mountains) brook trout are the only true native trout (char actually but who’s counting) and are considered “the” fish to catch.
I was really pleased to catch as many brookies as I did even though they are considered trash fish in the area.
Jeff
Charlie Elliott, the late southeastern editor for Outdoor Life once wrote an article called “The Ugh Fish”. In it, he made this point exactly. He detailed example after example of how largemouth, smallmouth, trout and salmon were each considered to be “trash” fish by various fishermen, depending on what section of the country they lived in and what they preferred to fish for. My favorite story was the Tennessee sucker fisherman who loathed smallies AND trout.
Personally, I’d rather catch carp than anything. In terms of fighting ability, they put most freshwater fish to shame.
Its NOT what “people” in a certain area think of as trash fish…its what that state’s Dept of Nat Resources plainly STATE a species as trash fish that matters.
As far as “fight” goes…fighting a carp is like setting the hook in the back bumper of my Jeep! There is no “fight” just a slow…straight line…unable to STOP …pull! That is the only way I can tell a carp from a catfish on the end of the line.
“As far as “fight” goes…fighting a carp is like setting the hook in the back bumper of my Jeep! There is no “fight” just a slow…straight line…unable to STOP …pull! That is the only way I can tell a carp from a catfish on the end of the line.”
Well, they must be super charged around here. I have had them jump, barrel roll, crash into downed brush and most have a tendency to go up stream then back down and wrap around me where I stand.
This behavior may totally depend on time of year conditions etc…
Can you tell I just spent the last week tying Carp flies???
Also, back east, Smallies were considered trash fish for a LONG time…still are to many New Englanders and further back Lobster were smashed and used as fertilizer…go figure.
If I wished to actually CATCH carp…a box of Wheaties is all I’d need…:lol:
I once read, and I believe it, that you could ‘clean out any quality trout water with a few pounds of velveeta’.
That’s one reason we fly fish for trout rather than bait fish. Makes it more sporting, and thus more fun.
Same reason why we shoot ducks and geese on the wing. You could easily kill all you wanted with a .22 pistol as they sat on the water or were feeding in a field.
Why fly fishing for carp is so rewarding is that they are harder to fool with an artificial fly than any trout. Spookier, too. Maybe they are easy to catch on bait. So are trout in most places.
Buddy
Right on Buddy. I agree totally. I read about guys catching Carp right and left with BAIT…now when they try with a fly…nothing.
If bait is your choice, go for it, but something about landing them with just a hook, feathers, hair, fur, synthetics…etc No smell or taste, not that feels GREAT!
Carp were brought to this country as a food source so many people enjoy eating them. They are strong and powerful and offer great close to home recreation. Remember that the first guys that fished for bonefish were looked down upon. I went to Canada many years ago and asked about good northern pike fishing and they all looked at me weird, they were considered trash fish.
Even if I killed all of the ones that I catch in a year on the fly rod, well over 100, it would make no difference in their population controll other than opening a spot in the eco system for more reproduction. Whether you like them or not, they are hear to stay. Ebrace your fears and enjoy what they have to offer becasue they really isn’t much you can do about it. Personally I keep them as pets, Japanese carp known as koi and I fish for them. I have come to love and respect the lowly carp.
I prefer to catch trout but good trout fishing is over 2 hours away, carp are within 10 minutes of the house. If you are not fishing for carp you are missing out.
Never tried cheese for trout…because almost all of the trout waters I have fished were posted …“FLY FISHING ONLY”!
Typically…you dont shoot waterfowl with a “.22 rifle…sitting on the water” is because it is AGAINST THE LAW!