Hi, folks–I’m new here and want to thank the powers that be for developing this site.
I’m a split cane guy. I’ve fished these things since a child and have restored/maintained several Heddon and South Bend my father and I have owned for years. Some I’ve given to friends and they really like them but they don’t fish them much because they were trained on graphite. I suppose it is sort of like playing tennis and racquetball–one can be mediocre at both but not really great at either. Trouble is, friends are now asking me to tie them graphite and I don’t know hoot about graphite. I’ve read some literature, which really didn’t teach me much and I’ve studied several great pubs from this site, which did teach me a lot.
I think I’d like to stay with a medium action which replicates cane somewhat, even though cane is much, much slower. I also think I’d like to stay with lenght between 8 and 9 since most of us fish Arkansas trout and panfish waters.
Mostly, I’m asked to tie 4 weights.
Question: I note that most wraps are sealed with some form of epoxy. Why can’t I seal my wraps with the same spar varnish I use on cane?
Question: Is there a really good read on designing and building graphite and is graphite the only space age material available, i.e., boron?
Question: I was really freaked out on high modulus graphite problems, like breaking from a bead head strike, so should I opt for more durable moderate modulus rods and what is the real difference?
So many questions, thanks in advance.
Beyond that, any suggestions from you are most appreciated.
Welcome JS, hope you like this place. Always good to see someone who likes a piece of grass in their hands. To answer your questions as best I can, you can use spar varnish in place of epoxy. First rod I ever built was fiberglass and I finished it with silk and varnish. It has held up for a while now (35 years) with only one wrap coming undone.
Graphite is delicate and subject to breakage from Clousers and the likes. I have done damage on some of my rods from Clousers. That is a downside to graphite. I think that fiberglass rods are a possibility as they are slower than graphite, more like 'boo, and a little heavier and therefore more durable.
I would not hesitate to build with gaphite. The damage to rods from Clousers etc. is not that common that it would cause me to steer away from the material. I would just keep some extra thread around in case you need to rebuild a section several years from now.
Graphite building is alot like cane building except you dont have make the blank. You just wrap the guides put the reel seat on and fishish with some epoxy coat. Any way I dont know why we use epoxy instead of varnish, How many coats do you aply your varnish? epoxy only takes 1-2 coats pretty durable to. I guess I have no real answer to your questions. Humm what part of arkansas are you from, I am living In Jacksonville area.
Yes, most graphite rods have an epoxy coating on the wraps as has been the practice for a long long time. and yes you can use other materials to finish them with. I have used Perma Gloss and achieved an excellent wrap finish in both graphite and fiberglass. and could you use the varnish used on your boo rods, I have done that as well and they turned out quite nicely. The use of epoxy does provide a higher level of strength and support to the ferrules of the graphite rods that I am not so sure you would get from other materials. The really cool thing about custom rod making and building is that you can do what ever you like, as long as the end result yields satisfaction
There are both graphite and boron materials being used today in fly rods, as well as fiberglass which is, as mentioned in another post, a lot slower than graphite. You may want to check some of the dedicated rod building sites for a good read on the design and building of graphite rods. http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2
damage to graphite by bead heads, clousers, any type of impact with the speed generated by casting can be detrimental to a graphite or fiberglass rod. The higher modulus rods seem to suffer the greatest. As you know the higher modulus rods simply mean a higher modulus of elasticity, or modulus of rupture, simply meaning that it has a higher breaking point based on whatever tests the rod industry uses for making that determination. I have seen IM6 rods broken with the same kind of damage that I have seen some of the boron rods broken. I think the main issue in selection is to select a good blank, from a manufacturer that is reputable, and offers a good warranty, and there are many toat do that.
Thanks, folks for the advice. I usually put several coats of varnish after the silk is color sealed, assuming I don’t use NCP silks. Friends and acquaintainces seem to like the colors and attractiveness of the rods I work with, one of which is fiberglass, so I wanted to stay with that process.
I’m also interested in some modern cane, like a local fellow produces with a Dickerson taper and wrap a new rod so I can use larger guides because my older canes don’t like modern fly lines very well.
PaGuy, I live in Maumelle–you Air Force by any chance?
Jed, I know what you mean by damage from strikes. I was bream fishing in a cypress swamp on the White River Game Refuge and struck my fiberglass with a weighted fly, which knocked a chunk out near the base of the tip. It made me ill because that was the last rod my father wrapped before he passed away. I’ve put it up, now.
Jed, you also noted to keep some thread around for repair of graphite. Umm, I know know how that would be done. It seems once broken, there is no repair unless some sort of insert can be placed in the hollow core. How does one do that?
dleo, do you know if medium action graphite replicates cane or bamboo action? Thanks for the site reference.
I think there are a few graphites that may be somewhat similar (as far as action goes) but as far as replication, I haven’t found a graphite yet that does it completely. I certainly haven’t found a graphite yet that simulates the sensitivity that bamboo rods produce.
I do however, have a couple of older Orvis rods, and 2 Hexagraphs. in the arsenal, that I would call a parabolic action and come about as close to bamboo as any I own, but they all certainly feel different with a fish on than does bamboo. Fiberglass on the other hand, will generate some amusing actions for you and your friends that other than weight would make you think you have bamboo like action.
you mentioned NCP silk above. I have never seen an ncp silk where could I find some and hopefully in an array of jasper colors?
There is no reason why you can’t use varnish on the wraps instead of epoxy. The advantages of epoxy is that it is a bit more durable and manufacturers can save on labor costs by putting on only one or two coats of epoxy as opposed to several coats of varnish (all this while jacking up the cost of the rods every year). I still use four thin coats of epoxy when I use epoxy. This gives an appearance similar to a varnished wrap. A varnished wrap is easier to deal with when doing rework. Removing wraps that have been epoxied tends to be a pain. Another difference is that you can fish a rod that has been epoxied sooner after building it as compared to a rod with varnished wraps. I will wait as little as two days after building a rod with epoxied wraps before fishing it. With varnished wraps, I like to wait at least two weeks.
Morning folks–Wow! Am I ever learning a lot, even more from my friend Leo–an older gentleman who has mentored me greatly in restoring and maintaining classics. Now he is fussing at me about transitioning from cane to graphite for reasons of action. It seems there are cane rod blanks currently being producted that have moderate and fast actions very similar to graphite but with cane sensitivity. Hmm. It seems the major difference is weight. For those of you who have experience in both, are there other differences?
dleo–I led you astray, sorry. When you asked about NCP silks in Jasper, I looked at my stuff. I had wrapped two rods, one a Montague and the other something a friend picked up on E-Bay that was unidentified. I wrapped both in NCP. Guess what, it was not silk, it was nylon from Gudebrod. My bad, sorry. Now I don’t know if silk is even available in NCP. Besides, it didn’t turn out as well as I had hoped so I sort of dropped the idea. They are attractive but not as bright as I had hoped. Thanks for keeping me honest.