Hi DrRob,
You wrote
"Here we have two instances of both a traditional North Country Pattern the ?Cowdung fly? the dressing dating back to 1811. [url=http://www.snipeandpurple.co.uk/images/flies/Cowdung-Fly.jpg:e3784]http://www.snipeandpurple.co.uk/images/flies/Cowdung-Fly.jpg[/url:e3784]
And a sample of Hidy’s dressings dating back 50 years or so. [url=http://www.flymph.com/assets/images/Flymphs1WMA11359512-0001.jpg:e3784]http://www.flymph.com/assets/images/Flymphs1WMA11359512-0001.jpg[/url:e3784]
Now apart from the fact that the Cowdung fly is tied better in the aesthetic sense. Can someone please tell me what is the difference between the two styles of flies!
They are both fished in the same manner and on similar types of rivers. So in essence they are both the same!"
I would have to say that a “Cowdung” technically could not be a Flymph as it does not emerge in the water. I suppose if one was fishing in cow dung then it could be a Flymph. The Cowdung does not have a tapered body and there is no accented thorax area. As far as tied better in the aesthetic sense , I would say that your fly is tied very nice but aesthetically I like Hidy’s. Hidy’s flies are tied to catch fish and represent specific aquatic insects. They were obviously tied that way on purpose. Hidy was a Fine tier, whom you seem to feel is beneath your self proclaimed talent.Talk about self promotion.
You wrote:
“The original question was ?So, is any Soft Hackle/Spider/etc. considered a Flymph??
And so the answer has to be yes! My point is why are we obsessed with naming them Flymphs/Soft Hackles or whatever is the in vogue term at the moment when they are all the same !”
This is ,of course, true. Spiders, north country flies,soft hackles, hackles…can all be Flymphs . This was never really ever in doubt. The point is the term “Flymph” describes a specific stage in a aquatic insects life , what is now called an emerger. The reason for this name was to make people aware of this stage of an insects life…not to steal any thunder from the north country…the revised version of “The Art of the Wet Fly” has many quotes from different authors used by Hidy to back up his theories. He was not trying to confuse anyone only to illuminate knowledge. You have to remember “Hackles” as well as Short hackled nymphs were relatively unknown to the average American fly fisherman at the time Leisenring told the book to Hidy, in 1941.
You wrote
“We know that Leisenring was a student of the English fly tiers, we know also know that Vernon Hidy worked with Leisenring to write the book The Art of Tying the Wet Fly and Fishing the Flymph, the book, also focused on so-called “Soft-hackle nymphs”. Hidy’s book however was a revised version of Leisenring?s earlier work entitled, The Art of Tying the Wet Fly. So now know that both men were influenced by English tiers notably Skues who himself was influence by the North Country Style of tying and on occasion fished with Max Walbran from Ripon in Yorkshire a man steeped in the lore of North Country Fishing and a major contributor to Pritt.”
It is not a secret that Leisenring and later Hidy as well, both corresponded with Skues. Remember Skues held Leisenring in high esteem. He even presented the Anglers Club with a framed set of Leisenring’s flies. Skues must have thought that there was something special about Leisenring’s flies to do so.
You wrote
“We are only serving to confuse our fellow anglers into thinking that these new in vogue flies are the latest sure fire winner on the block when in fact they have been around for centuries but we just like to call them by different terms, and it is all these terms for the same type of fly that is leading to all the confusion.”
I don’t see it that way. I think that it opens anglers eyes by making them aware of something that you can’t buy in a fly shop, except of course for the standard Partridge & (insert color). There is a whole new world to explore.
You wrote
“May I also add that on the Brotherhood of The Flymph web site it states that “In 1857 W. C. Stewart was one of the first to describe in detail the North Country Spiders of northern England and southern Scotland in his book The Practical Angler. Stewart was the first to fully present these pattern recipes in documented form” This is indeed wrong as James Chetham of Smedley published in 1681 his Angler’s Vade Mecum in which he gives us a full list of North Country recipes and is possibly the first man to record the use of Game Hackles rather than to normal poultry hackles.And to my knowledge is the first to mention the spinning of fur bodies on another colour of silk so that it may shine through, the basis of many of todays North Country trout flies.”
I’m somewhat familiar with Chetham’s work. If my memory serves me right weren’t most of his flies winged? Did he state what technique he used to spin the bodies? If so what was it? The silk shining through is not in question only the technique used to get the results.
You wrote
“With regards to your comments on Theodore Gordon was it not he who taught Roy Steenrod how to tie flies ? And also Rube Cross claimed Tutelage although this is open to doubt but his flies are certainly tied in the Gordon manner.”
Yes it is true that Gordon taught Steenrod how to tie. And yes Cross claimed the same. But, no, they did not tie in the same manner . I have studied some of Gordons ties , very Halfordian. Most claim that Cross started the Catskill style dry,some say Steenrod, but all indications point to Cross.
One final note . The IBF was started as a Celebration of Leisenring and Hidy’s contribution to the sport. This is only natural, being that it started in the USA.We wanted to rejuvenate the work that Pete Hidy started. It is not however limited to those two but to ALL, for lack of a better universal term, Soft hackle as well as traditional wet fly fans. Our Europe branch is called North Country Spiders.
Best Regards,
Jim