Ive been trying to connect my tippet to my leader with a loop to loop system using a double surgeons.I find the very fine tippet material breaks easily even when i lubricate the knot.
Any suggestions?
saflyfish,
I use a double surgeons knot and don’t seem to have more breaks than usual. Of course, this connection is, I guess for practical purposes, supposed to be the weakest link between the fly and the reel. That way if you get hung up in a tree, under a rock or if you want to break a fish off, you’ll minimize your loss.
Allan
Does the tippet material break easliy with other knots? My though is it might be the tippet and not the knot?
My $0.02
-ST
[url=http://www.flyfishingwis.com:1d746]www.flyfishingwis.com[/url:1d746]
saflyfish,
Get into the habit of eliminating a loop/loop tippet connection. They’re weak, hinge and give you more trouble than they’re worth.
Do as Allan suggests, a double of even triple surgeons. I use a triple but …your call.
Loop/loops are troublesome and weak.
Jeremy.
I use a blood knot. Took a little bit to learn it, but now I can tie it easily without much trouble. Never had any problems.
A blood knot forever!
after years of using a blood knot…I found the surgeons knot…dubbl trippl quad…whatever…for me the knot is useless…or possibly the line I use is not compatable…whatever the reason a surgeons knot cost me an 8lb stillwater bow this past spring…have landed many larger steelhead in fast water in Onterrible using the blood knot…so I will stick with it…just my experiences…yours may vary… 
)
mojo
I also like the double surgeon’s knot. Sometimes I’ll go to a quad if I’m fishing for bass and I don’t have a replacement on hand for the fly pattern I’m using. Does anyone else ever experience either of the following problems?
triple, quad or higher surgeon knots breaking easily?
triple surgeons causing a kink in your line at the knot? This has on occasion led me to tying quad surgeons.
Jeremy,
I agree to disagree - I use perfection loops loop to loop and they’re pretty strong.Sure, not 100% knot strength, but they do have their place. For indicator fishing, they work fantastic, and they allow me to adjust length quickly, and I can make drastic changes in tippet diameter and stil have good knot strength. For example, I can go from using 1x to 4x tippet with a 18-lb main line in seconds. It would be very difficult to get a surgeons knot to hold an 18-lb test to 4x or eveb 2x connection at greater than about 75% strength, and the alternative is “stepping down” tippet sizes which takes time. So loop to loop does have its place! Hinging isn’t an issue with a big piece of split shot I can’t tell the difference.
For dry flies, swinging nymphs, or soft-hackles I recommend a triple surgeons or orvis knot for the tippet. Do a web search, they’ll show up.
-John
Maybe I’m off the mark but I thought the blood knot is best utilized on materials that have similar diameters while the double surgeon’s knot was best used when tying to materials together of a differing diameter, in order to prevent slippage.
Speaking of knots. For those who hand tie their leaders with bloodknots, do you use the old pliobond or like material to coat the knots to allow them to glide through the eyes of the rod easier?
Blood knot for me! I use a two section tippet to a level leader. This lets me replace the tippet quite a few times and then I chuck it all when the level leader shrinks too much.
I believe it’s true that a double surgeons knot is slightly stronger than a loop2loop. With surgeons loops or perfection loops. Especially in the lighter tippet sizes.
As for blood knots, unless you can tie one well in any condition, the surgeon’s is easier and stronger.
I cannot agree with Jeremy’s statement that loop2loops are troublesome and weak.
For ease of use the L2L can’t be beat. And as for hinging, that just doesn’t happen unless your tippet is so much lighter than the last leader section.
Even though I know that a surgeon’s loop is stronger than the perfection, I use the perfection most of the time. I am comfortable with it so much that I can tie one in the dark. And that, I feel is the most important quality of a knot.
If you can tie a knot right every time, that’s the one that will work best for you.
North Jersey’
A muti surgeon’s knot will not tighten correctly and will slip, causing it to break.
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[This message has been edited by dudley (edited 08 November 2005).]
[This message has been edited by dudley (edited 08 November 2005).]
Sometimes the way the tag end lay is an issue. As in when we fish LM’s in the “poop”. With a surgeons, the tag ends lay parallel to the mainline, creating a small notch for EVERY weed nearby to catch in. I guess Knot sense would remedy this, but that is just one more step and thing to carry. A blood knot’s tag ends are perpindicular to the mainline and can be trimmed close enough to miss MOST debri.
Just more thoughts…
…lee s.
I’m with ktokj. I like loop to loop connections. I fish fluoro most of the time, and I had terrible luck trying to blood knot the FC to my nylon leaders. Kept breaking. So I went to a pair of surgeon’s loops, but prefer a triple (three times thru). A double wasn’t strong enough, and a 4X gave me a knot that was too hard to tighten up evenly.
One thing about the surgeon’s - you HAVE to pull on the tag end before you seat the knot up tight pulling on the loop and the running line, or it won’t produce the strength you want.
But the loop method allows me to use a long 4X or 5X FC tippet tied to a 2X leader, so the small tippet sinks fast, and the loop in the leader never gets weaker than the tippet knots.
Idlerick
The Orvis tippet knot. Very strong, very easy to tie, and unlike the surgeon’s (make mine a double - no, make it a triple), the tippet is connected in more or less a straight line.
Bob
As a guide I find the blood knot to be the strongest. Except when using thin diameter tippet. A blood knot is difficult to tie on this stuff so thats when I use the surgeons.
I use a tiny metal ring and it works.
When using light tippet for larger fish, I take a page from the saltwater book and use a spider hitch. [url=http://www.sdhookandline.com/knots/spiderhitch.html:a91bf]http://www.sdhookandline.com/knots/spiderhitch.html[/url:a91bf]
Tie the spider hitch in the tippet, then tie the doubled strands to the leader with a three turn blood knot. I tie the blood knot so that the doubled strands are short, about 3", that way presentation is not much affected. I do not recall ever breaking a tippet/leader connection made this way.
A Bimini Twist would be even better, but tying them in 7X tippet eludes me:-(
With the light tippet material the double surgeons knot works just fine for me. As I get into heavier material (and fish), I like loop to loop. Obviously, like we all know, a knot is only as good as it’s tied; and I tie some knots very well, with some others … well … not so good. Plus, there’s tying a knot in my living room and then tying one streamside.
The wonderful thing about this sport is finding out what works best for yourself. I got an old fishing buddy and we disagree
on a lot of things … knots, leader length and sometimes even on what fly to use; but we always share information and have a great time fishing together! Not very much is etched in granite for this sport!
Dale
I’m partial to the granny.
RW
“We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours.” -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-