I love dry fly fishing, and love parachute dries. 90% of my dries are size 16 and smaller, some as small as size 24.
My two favorite flies are P. Adams and a P. Sulphur.
I need small hackle, especially for the Sulphur. I currently use either light dun, but I suppose I could use something “yellow” (like cream or ginger). BTW, the sulphur is my own creation, not a “proper sulphur.” Its needed for small yellow mayflies on the Trinity River (CA).
Assume price is no object, as I will save tons of money by tying my own flies. So any thoughts on what hackle I should buy? Whiting 100 packs and 1/4 saddles? Collins? Something I’ve never heard of? And what color? I’ve never used a barred hackle or cree.
Given the information you presented, I’d choose necks over saddles. On a quality saddle you’ll probably find 2 or 3 sizes. Getting sizes 22 & 24 is improbable or more accurately, impossible. However, on a quality neck, you’ll have a full range of hackle sizes, possibly down to 24 and beyond, albeit not as many hackles in comparative sizes as the saddle.
So you really think your gonna save money tying your own, Huh? If that’s true I have some land in the Everglades and a bridge in Brooklyn I have up for sale.
The sponsor page has plenty of places to get hackle, but, for my money, I buy mine from Denny Conrad at Conranch Hackle (also on the sponsor page). Great hackle at an affordable price. Denny only sells to tiers, no middle man.
I go along with tyeflies on his suggestion of necks over saddles. Broader range of sizes and the necks have those really small feathers you need.
Some of my friends who are comercial tyers use saddles only for parachute style flies and neck hackle for regular flies. Although I have never used a feather out of them I have Hoffman super saddles that are “Size 18” saddles. I got these from Henry at the Penn State FFF Conclave in 1986 when he first introduced them out of a samples suitcase. The problem as Ron states is it would be tough to get the 20’s and smaller hackles from a saddle. Allan ties those tiny flies so does a one armed tyer named Dave Protheros up in Canada. If money is no object talk to Denny or one of the other major hackle dealers and they would be glad to supply you.
Whiting 100 packs can be found in certain colors down to 24 maybe 26. I have lots of packs of 22-24 grizzly and dun. I had to order them special. The 1/4 saddles in midge sizes can be good too although the 22-26’s can be hard to find. And they offer a lot more colors in the 100 packs than you might think.
I have 100 packs in olive, light yellow, golden yellow/ginger and a barred golden ginger that are awesome.
I only use neck hackle for the stuff below 22-24 depending on the tie. I prefer my hackles to be about 1-1/4 or less than the hook gap instead of the classic 1-1/2 so a labeled size 24 saddle for me may be a size 22.
goby,
Whiting farms has saddle hackle that ties 18-20- 22-24. It’s their midge hackle.
I would recomend a silver or better grade of Whiting Farms neck hackle. Platinum grade would be ideal. You could tie 28 all day with a platinum.
I’ve heard great things about Conranch hackle. you might want to check on their product as well.
Jim
Goby, I will be back in the rockies for a couple weeks this fall, will see if I can find you some of those Whiting 100s in the small enough sizes. I’ge got a dun I use for BWOs but it is a bit bigger than I know you like to use.
As for those “sulphurs”, they eat the 16s just as well as the 22s. S. Next time I run into you remind me to give you a few of mine.
For me, for small dry flies, you have three choices. Whiting, Whiting, or of course, Whiting. I like the hundred packs because they suit the small quantities I do to a “t”. Beyond that, you could go with a silver neck, but if you’re really tying small and nothing but small ( 20 and smaller ), the midge saddle, or half a midge saddle if you can get one.
Eric
Amen JC. Boy do I agree with that one. Most people today do not know what it was like to try and find hackle that would tie size #16 or #18 dry flies back then. They have it made in todays world as far as hackle and a lot of other materials and hooks go.
Funny today Bill Flick stopped by. Yes Art’s son. He stopped to bring me some Hun Skins and some Pheasant tails. We were in my tying room so he could see what the flood had done. While down there I opened a box and showed him some saddles that I had because I knew that he liked to tie with good dun hackle. I cut one good dun saddle in half and gave it to him. He could not believe how stiff and long the feathers were. His first words were. “My Dad would never believe the feathers they are growing today”. Made me feel good to give him some. I know he will enjoy using them.
This thread just made me think about that as it happened to day. People are spoiled today. Me included. Ron
One of the reasons I still hang on to my old Chinese and Indian necks is to remind me of the way it was.
Every time I get a beginning tier to my bench I show them the old necks that still bear the grade “A” markings and they can’t believe that people used to salivate over these necks the way we do over the “silver, gold and platinum’s” of today. I also have a few “vintage” Metz necks and other genetics and the difference between them and today’s uber capes is unbelievable.
Castwell
I have to disagree about old necks getting weak and brittle. I have and use many necks that are 50 years old and never have a problem with them or any inbetween.
We are really spoiled…not having to pick through the indian necks for quality feathers that are just the right size.
I keep some of the indian necks, but am more dependent on the Whiting 100 packs for the production tying of things !!! Jeez, even Cree is a nice change from having to tie in one grizzly, & one brown !!!
[This message has been edited by MR.JML (edited 10 October 2005).]
Castwell
Grandmothers, most are Indian necks, home grown, or was brought from misc people. The only necks I have have split is necks with the stems that are too stiff/thick, I only have seen a couple like that and I think they were from the same place. I do love the old necks because I can tie variants. Now that most necks are picked over pretty well, I can only dream of what they were like back in the day. My grandmother says that most of the necks I have used are not the best quality compaired to what they had back in the day. For 90% of my flies I tie I do use Metz, Collins, Al’s Grizzly, whiting, Del Mazza’s Grizzly (by far the best grizzly out there), or other more modern necks.
Joe,
What does your Grandmother know about tying flies? It’s not like she’s going to be inducted into some sort of Hall of Fame or anything. The nerve.
You better go to Ralph’s and get some more lessons,
not like he knows anything either. You Easteners are all the same. Like Roscoe is some sort of mecca .
Do your homework and give up fly tying. It’s no way to make a living! I’m not going to have to start calling you “The Kid” am I?
Just kidding. I’m hoping to see your grandmother this week on the Island. No Roscoe trip this time.
Take care,
Jim
If you want neck hackle that’s really long and stiff, good luck )-: The great genetic hackle we have today was not without some sacrifice. That being large(long) hackle barbs.
However, your needs can probably be met if you can get your hands on true ‘SPADE’ hackle. Some of the genetic breeders have it available.
Ron