Speaking of pepper spray, I do have a cannister that I " usually" bring when I fish the Teton & Y’Stone. BUT…How effective is it?? I was in a citizen police meeting once and volunteered for a squirt of the stuff and it would sure as hell deter me. My plan would be to use it at a very close range ( easier to say, I’m sure)as I would if I had to use my lil dinky .380 Walther PPK.
Mark
PS: The cannister I have is " bear rated"and is the size of a small fire extinguisher. Sprays 30 ft in calm.
I’d rather be in Wyoming!
[This message has been edited by Marco (edited 29 July 2005).]
Please note that the BEAR pepper spray is a much more concentreted formula than the stuff used on humans. The stuff used for the two legged varmits would NOT be effective on a bear.
As for one-handing my 44 mag? Ain’t no way, it is a pretty good kicker with my reloads, loaded for “bear” so to speak.
(now I hestitate to post this, … but I figure y’all should know)…
As to Bear pepper spray, …
We had a problem in Eastern canada … Bear problems for forestry crews. Guns aren’t “allowed”, … so we TESTED sprays at the wildlife park here (no, … PETA wouldn’t approve).
A kindly ole bruin lumbered up to the warden (it’s a zoo) … and promptly got a 1 second burst. … poor thing took off like a shot.
The manufaturer was pretty happy. So I did a test. I jumped the (protective) fence, … picked up a cub and brought her back on to the “people” side of the fence.(cub was about 45 lbs)
I held the cub up to the fence and squeezed a pad under it’s foot to create a bit of discomfort. The lil guy bawled, … mommy bear came up to the fence and pawed at me through the fence… She got 2 x 10 second bursts and NEVER LEFT THE FENCE, … just kept shaking her head and pawing through the bars(and not too happily I might add). Not even really mad, … just persistent.
The “moral” of the story is, … Sprays, … imho, … are good deterents for curious or hungry bears.
In real problem situations, … mommies and wounded animals, … I would much rather put my faith on a Ford 250 4x4 and a locked door
Hey there Chris;
Great experiment. You must have " brass balls" to set that one up.
Thanks for posting the results. I would have bet the bear would take off regardless of the cub.
Having spent the better part of the last 4 summers playing in the Beartooths, I have been lucky to only see one bear, that was a black bear swimming across a lake. My parents have seen two griz and a couple of black bears in the backcountry but were never very close or threatened. I carry the pepper spary anytime I go hiking or fishing. I have only once had the spary out of the holster and that was for a moose and not a bear. It took me 45 minutes to work my way around a moose in the trail along the Madison one day. I cane around a corner and there it was.
AFter that incident I always carry a backup cannister of pepper spary just in case I have to use one. And the second one is very accesible.
As for the origianl post about firearms in National Parks, I think they are more concerned with poaching of animals than the safety of visitors. After all part of the beauty of going to say Yellowstone or Glacier is the luxury of seeing wild animals. I have my suspsicions that if you shot a bear in a park, then you would have a hard time getting off.
As I recall, a guy shot a griz in Paradise Valley a few years ago. It turns out he was actually being attacked by a bear but there was a catch. He was not legally allowed to have a firearm (may have been on probation or something) and they nailed him to the wall for it. That was after he got out of the hospital as I recall. Maybe someone else can correct on the details of this story if they know it. So I doubt a court would have very much leniencey if you had a firearm in National Park and used it even in self defense. Throw in the fact that griz are federally protected animals, you had better be able to prove that killing one was in self defense.
Just my opinion. I have a few friends who are so scared of bears they wont go into Yellowstone since they cant carry a firearm. Chances are they will not have any problems but no matter what I tell them they wont believe me.
Very good to point out the Moose … I would much rather meet up with a courious bear, … than a Moose looking for her calf.
Marco, … Putting one’s self between a mommy and a cub is not a good idea. She really will be protective and persistant. Even after a cub “returns” to safety, … she’ll tend to want to continue on to make sure she had “run off” the threat.
On of the most STUPID thing tourists do, … is to approach a bear cub that has scrambled up a tree. If the cub is up a tree, … it’s because Mom has sent them there… Leave 'em alone.
I also like to “imagine” scene sometimes for those “I can BUY experience” types (sailboats, mountaineering, rockclimbing ,…) if I simply rappelled down and said, … nice day, … looks like you’re stuck, … too bad. then continue on my way, …
Noooo, … I’m too “generous”, … I like getting called at 03h00, for S&R duty 'cause stupid happens.
sorry for the rant, … I guess I should start another thread).
Thanks for the test story Chris, I will use that in my Hunters Ed. classes. Also, as you said, wounded animals or mothers protecting young ones, are Not to be messed with if at all possible. At last count I have had the unfortunate luck of coming between seven cow moose and their calfs.
Guess I get too involved in fishing and don’t look around enough. Fortunately. they have all left after I got out of the way, only one bull moose, didn’t like me fishing his hole I guess. didn’t leave me alone until two shots from the 44 made enough noise to convince him I wasn’t backing down, because the steep sides of the small canyon wouldn’t let me go anywhere.
For the record, I would prefer to leave these animals undisturbed, however, I spend enough time in their back yards that the chances of my intruding on their privacy is great. So I am prepared for the conciquences as should everyone be when they venture into the back country.
Wyo-blizzard
[This message has been edited by Byron Zuehlsdorff (edited 30 July 2005).]
[This message has been edited by Byron Zuehlsdorff (edited 30 July 2005).]
For the record,… wounded beasts aren’t something to play with.
Problem is, … when some [name a country here] tourist wounds a big North American Mammal, … Fish and Wildlife often called me to go out and make sure the critter wouldn’t do any harm to some poor camper.
(and thus the backing for the “almost rant” in my previous post )
Spent more than a few nights tracking wounded Grizzlies 'n Cougars in the Rockies. Thank the lord for the nice ole soul that invented the double barrel 457 magnum
Chris, I fully understand having been called to assist a couple of times with wounded animals. The game wardens, two different ones, two different areas, both are personal friends and were not too happy about the situations. The one for a black bear thankfully ended with us finding the bear dead already. The bull moose was quite a heart rending moment as I was the one to finish it off.
Now I have hunted moose and bear both, never got either one but had a great time trying. Oh well, that is why it is called hunting, not getting.
I don’t envy anyone who has to finish off an animal to cease its suffering, and I make it a personal point to never end stressing to all my students the importance of clean kills and always follow up your shot to make sure you DON"T leave a wounded animal to suffer.
Wyo-blizzard
[This message has been edited by Byron Zuehlsdorff (edited 30 July 2005).]
JC - you weren’t implying any similarities between wardens and bears to cowboys and their wives now are you …
tyflier - thank you for pointing who really causes most of the confrontations. I have a 6" Buck no-slip hunting knife on myself - back of my waders - or on my side when hiking. We’ve same rules here - but I’d rather go down fighting and give my family a chance to get out if need be. As for the aggresive predator though … cats seem to be finicky - end result, if they wanna eat ya - they is gunna eat ya.
hey - pepperspray and bells I thought was just to differentiate between grizz doo and black bear doo.
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