Bears and firearms

FAOL Community Sound Off
1

Myself having confronted a bear in a National Park, I have mixed emotions regarding the possession of firearms in the park system. They are strictly forbidden. I have in the past and intend to in the future obey this law but… While I’m not one to question laws made by smarter people ( assumption) than myself , I’m curious as to the logic behind this law. I wonder what would be the the verdict in a court of law if I shot a bear that was mauling me in a national park. I wonder if they would find that while it was illegal to possess a firearm, it would not be illegal to use one in that circumstance , if I had one. Kinda convoluted logic but… I can’t really imagine a different verdict.

Any opinions???

2

I think the presumption is that if your carrying a gun in the park you are hunting which of course is illegal. Your best defense is to make enough noise to let the bears avoid you. When walking to or from the stream alone in Northern Mi. I will quite often sing a song for that reason and I would like to take this opportunity to appologize to any one who has had the misfortune of hearing me.

all leaders tangle; mine are just better at it than most. Jim

3

If it’s gonna take you out, take it out first, the law of survival… I think put first in the days of creatting the USA…

Spelling and Grammar not subject to judgement…

[This message has been edited by Grubb (edited 26 July 2005).]

4

Marco, Marco, Marco…
If you would just consult with the ACLU & PETA first, you would realize that bear has rights!

  1. Freedom of expression…tearing your frickin’ head off!
  2. If you asked the bear nicely, I am quite sure he would spit your head out, and probably even escort you to the morgue. Hasn’t PETA made it clear that animals in general & especially endangered “minnows” are more important to preserve than human life? (sorry to get off track). Case in point…years ago, PETA attempted to block the building of a flood control dam (to save human lives) because it would destroy the last known spawning ground of the “snail darter minnow”…How DARE you paint yourself more important than a minnow!
    MIke
5

Pepper spray, highly recommended when in bear country!!! And it works, so I am told by an outfitter from Pinedale. They had a black bear, female, and cubs raiding the garbage pit, after the first spray, the cubs never came back. The female saw the people after her second spraying, and ran off and has not been back in three years.

They also had a runin with a young (2-3) griz in the high country, it left in a big hurry. When they spotted it three days later at a different lake, it took off in a big hurry. Have had the good fortune to meet the guy who started the bear pepper spray and he has some very interesting storys he has personally experienced.

I have never had to use gun or spray but do pack both. I do believe the spray is legal to pack in the national parks.

Rainbowchaser pegged it with “assuming you are hunting” even if you aren’t, the feds always ASSUME that you are going to break the law even if you aren’t.

Wyo-blizzard

6

Marco,

I guess it comes down to a simple question.

Will the gun do anything helpfull??

Oh, … #1, … if it isn’t legal, … I’m against it. I’ve worked in the forest since I was 13 and have come into many situations with Blacks, Grizzlies, Moose, Elk … Most of them,… my fault.

imho, … 99% of the folks that would be carrying a firearm,… wouldn’t be able to use it effectively in a “panic” situation.

This isn’t hunting we’re talking about. We’re in those situations where your life is flashing through your mind or your wife is being dragged up a tree be a cougar.

There is NO time to :
[ul]
[li]settle in, [/:m:d143f][/li][li]acquire your target picture, [/:m:d143f][/li][li]identify the target, [/:m:d143f][/li][li]remove the safety, [/:m:d143f][/li][li]double check the target, [/:m:d143f][/li][li]relax and [/:m:d143f][/li][li]squeeze.[/*:m:d143f][/ul][/li]
Second problem,… firearm would mean, … something portable, yet effective. When we did work in grizzly country, … first thing we did is store the 44 Magnum Blackhawks and shoulder up the Winchester Defenders. Magazine extensions and chamber a round.

Normal hunting rifles just don’t pack the punch and ANY handgun is too light.

Just my 0.02$

Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:d143f]http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/[/url:d143f]

7

chris, you the man.

i heard it said that grizzled hunting guides suggest that you should carry a handgun in bear country. if you are charged by a grizzly, use the gun on yourself.

8

Chris makes a good point. The other thing to consider is the size of hand gun you are going to carry. 357? Probably not enough to drop a bear of any size. 44 mag? Enough power but can the average person handle such a weapon under such circumstances? Probably not. Forget what you saw in those Dirsty Harry movies. You can’t accurately fire one with one hand. Even with both hands they kick like a mule.

Pepper spary and bells is the way to go.

9

DM, …

LOL, … I remember once suiting up for a job. We all sort of check out the other new crew members to see what they’ll be packing into black bear country, … As my artillery hadn’t arrived yet, … all I had was an old Baretta 9mm.

The others sort of laughed aying that that wouldn’t stop a bear, … even with 18 inthe clip. I turn and said with a straight face,“Oh, … If we run into a mommy bear 'n her cubs, … the 9mm is to wound on of you, so I can have time to run away” … For 1 second, … they stopped laughing

AnglerDave, …
Yup, … a full load 44 is not for the timid. I can’t even shot one TOWARDS the correct hemisphere (and I HAVE tried for THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of rounds). Just can’t do it.

Hey, … Question … Dirty Harry is the name of the Movie, … what character did Mr. Eastwood portrait in the Film??

Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:a9144]http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/[/url:a9144]

10

Chris

In my younger days I managed to put rounds on paper but oh the accuracy or lack there of.

Inspector Harry Calahan (sp?) was Eastwood’s character in the movie.

11

AnglerDave,

Paper? Piece of paper or Newspaper ?? LoL

I guess soooo many people just think it works like in Hollywood films eh ?

I had to “panic” shoot grizzlies on two occassions, (both when some “sportsman” had merely wounded them) … and I was mighty “happy” to have been sporting a Defender with slugs

Yup, … Harry Callahan. Back in the days when the “star” of a film didn’t HAVE to play a politically correct figure. …

Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:b2372]http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/[/url:b2372]

12

Having encountered enough bears in AK to satisfy my curiosity, I have my own practice when in bear country based on my experiences. I carry a 12 gauge loaded with slugs, and pepper spray. Some will argue that the gun will not stop a bear, but that is not why I carry it. The point of the gun is noise and reach. They are loud when fired, and I can take a warning shot or two at a far greater range than the pepper spray ever could.

Besides the other tips on making noise, and watching where you are going, it is up to the induvidual to provide for their own security. I will do what feels right to me, and I would hope others would do the same. Always be prepared.

Have fun, Jeff

13

You guys are scaring the bejeezus out of me again!

Having just returned from my first visit to Montana, I heard enough about bears and bear safety to last a lifetime. Here in south Louisiana we have black bears, smaller ones, and they are so timid I have only seen one in my entire lifetime as an outdoorsman.

In Montana, on the east edge of Glacier National Park, the worry about grizzly and the like was serious and I took it seriously. Funny thing was, when I’d tell Montanans about fishing near alligators and water moccasin snakes, they’d turn as white as I did when they’d talk about grizzlies!

Best,
Roger Stouff

[url=http://www.native-waters.com:a1061]http://www.native-waters.com[/url:a1061]

14

Jeff, …
Excellent point about the Big Bang!

They sell also (or did) “audible” signalling flares.

Little 22 cal primer on a “pencil” launcher.

The warning on the label says “Do not point at humans or animals”. The “flare” fires out about 60-100 ft, than exploded in a big bang pretty close to the sound of a 12 gauge.

We used to be issued them as “Bear Bangs” in the Rockies.

One evening at camp, … we were just starting to figure out that one of the crew hadn’t come in yet and he shows up, … busted collar bone and all scratched up.

We ask what happened. He says he ran into a juvi grizzly just up the road. We go “oh no, … you got mauled”. … “No no, … nothing like that”, … he says.

Seems, … he saw the young grizz, … figures to give 'im a scare so’s he’ll keep away from camp. Fires off a bear bang towards the critter. Problem is, … he was too close, … flare sail out OVER the shoulder of the bear and explodes about 5 ft BEHIND the bear. The bear is scared ***tless and charges straight down the road, … RUNNING OVER Eddy in the process (thus the busted collar bone and bruises).

We never really found out if the story was true or not, … but we DID have a good laugh while we drove him down to the aid station for x-rays

p.s. … Roger, … I would much rather deal with Grizzlies 'n cougars than SNAKES and other reptiles. imho,. … Big mammals are just more “predictable”.
… so just proves again, … there are “water” people and there are “mountain” people.

Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:9153f]http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/[/url:9153f]

[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 July 2005).]

[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 July 2005).]

15

chris, what a great story!

evil dave knows what he’s talking about with the 44 mag–i happen to know he was the inspiration for inspector callahan and the dirty harry movies. he often says to me “do you feel lucky today, punk!!!” man, when he does that it’s scarier than grizzlies and aligators and snakes put together!

[This message has been edited by D. Micus (edited 27 July 2005).]

16

Chris that is hilarious…Guess that is what is called “watching the defication hit the rotary oscillator”…

17

some can handle a 444 marlin chambering in a Thompson Center Encore pistol alot better than some think…a 44 is a mear peashooter in comparison…Have any of you tried the new S&W 500…?..Tis a kewl lil toy…The 480 Ruger is’nt all I’d hoped it’d be…Got my first 44 when I was 16…Only allowed to use it in dads presance at that time…Been Handgun hunting all my life…I think there is nothing wrong with being prepared…weather that be with spray or a good firearm sutied to the job at hand…

“I’ve often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before” A.K.Best

“Wish ya great fishing”

Bill

18

I kinda like my BFR (magnum research) 45-70…sorta hurts my wrist a little to shoot it though

19

lions tigers and bears oh my!
I’ve lived in northwest montana most of my life spent my share and somebody elses of time and I can count all the grizzlies i’ve seen on one hand usually tail toward me at a dead run the other way.But that doesn’t mean I don’t go out unprepared.areas that see alot of people usually just pepper spray,high mountain lakes or low traffic areas pepper spray and the smith and wesson 629 with handloaded 220 grain full wad cutters.
PS.any of you ever want to know what a grizzlies breath smells like just ask my wife.one snuck up on her while she was picking berries one day she didn’t know it was there until she felt its breath on her neck.needless to say she’s still bear shy.

20

I had a big ol grizz comin’ straight at me…closer, CLOSER, SNARLIN’, foamin at the mouth!!!..then, in the nick of time, I pulled out my trusty remote & BINGO!..Regis & “Who Wants to be a Millionaire” reruns!!!
Seriously, Grizzly bears are beautiful animals, and I would LOVE to see one (or more) in the wild.
Chris brings up a good point…having sold guns after returning from Vietnam, when folks would look for a “protection weapon”, I would tell them that hesitation leads to your own death in most cases, ‘cuz it’s far easier to SAY you’ll shoot immediately than to do it. Whether human or beast is comin’ at you, they aren’t gonna “wait” for you!

Knew a “big bad tough guy” who bragged he could “one-hand” a 44 mag…one of the guys had one & ol’ “tough guys” ego got the hell knocked out of it!..it just ain’t like shootin two 22s!
Mike