I have created a post about dozens Bald Eagles being slaughtered for their tail feathers and talons in the conservation forum of this site. Please take the time to read this thread
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This sort of behaviour is dispicable and makes me ashamed to share the human race with such heartless people such as the ones killing these birds.
Hey She Ties,
A friend volunteers in a local raptor center and
she tells me that the laws are extremely
strict here on eagle feathers and body parts. They recover injured and dead birds
and aid them or dispose of them accoring to
law which as I understand it, makes them
available to native american groups for
ceremonial use. I do know that I have seen
more eagles in the last decade than ever
before. I have two that enjoy hunting our
back pasture and spend a lot of time in the
area. On a recent kayaking trip I spotted
7 in the adjacent national forest. They
seem to be doing pretty well in these parts.
I share your concern with anyone who would
poach these magnificent creatures and would
drop a dime on one in a heartbeat. Warm
regards, Jim
From what I have heard BC has some of (if not the best) the best/healthiest Bald Eagle populations in Canada. The officials think that is the reason we are having problems here vs the rest of Canada and the US. Our penalties are up to $50,000 fine per bird and jail time. We just have to catch these poachers first. The officials are now starting to think that is is organized poaching, not just “Joe Blow” out there. They are finding more dumped eagle bodies very week and it makes me sick with anger.
It is nice to know that I am not the only one enraged by this behaviour.
SheTies,
Saw the item on the Wire when it came out. Know the area, … too bad.
We have the same problem here with Black bears as there is a market for gall bladders 
Every individual action counts, … from refusing to tolerate the sale of such items, by denouncing those who offer to sell you items and by keeping the SOS poaching numbers on speed dial. Oh, and I’m strict on this. Pity the poor soul that offers to sell me some Walleye fillets, I’ll agree in a minute and show up with the RCMP.
I’ve travel on occassion literally thousands of miles to return to a jurisdiction to testify against certain people. It’s all worth it, be it boycotting a restaurant chain, informing certain tourists about the impact of “souvenir” items …
I guess there will aways be a those marginals that will try to profit from human vanities, … whether the “activity” or “item” hides behind the excuse of tradition, culture, ignorance, or greed, it is still unacceptable.
(IMHO)
Thanx for the link and the thread.
Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/:a4304]http://www3.sympatico.ca/chris_chin/[/url:a4304]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 26 February 2005).]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 26 February 2005).]
Twenty years ago there were no bald eagles in NJ. Today there are 70 pairs, most in my area of the state. I had the great supprise of stepping out one morning to find a bald eagle standing guard in my driveway.
Its come to the point that housing developers are now bold enough to say that if a nest comes between them and development, the nest must go to insure the “quality of life and economic vitality of the housing industry”.
Its the eagles that insure MY quality of life! and I hope to keep it that way… FB.
Here’s a grin for you, though. North of here a pig farmer reported that an eagle was picking off his piglets. (True story!) What could he do? Eagles are protected. Now nobody can use the excuse that they’ll do it “when pigs fly!”
When I lived In the Queen Charlottes , I found a Dead Eagle On the Mud flats where I fish . I thought , neat , I’ll get It mounted . Fortunately My neighbor was a conservation officer , boy did he set me straight . I had to officially report it to Him . He took charge of the carcass , I filled out a large form . He assured me that no way would I be able to keep it for Mounting as there is a long list of Natives that are elegible for the feathers . I’m Happy that the bird was used for a good purpose even if it wasn’t what I had planned .I don’t think I’d have been in trouble over it , My neighbor said that any taxidermist is required to report any raptors brought to them such as eagles to the authoritys .The Slaughter of Eagles in BC is obviously being carried out for the big bucks by people with no conscience and no morals .
Time is the fire that we burn in .
Gnu Bee,
The Slaughter of Eagles in BC is obviously being carried out for the big bucks by people with no conscience and no morals
Just makes you wonder WHO these poachers are selling to ??
One way to catch poachers is to get them in the act … Another way (in compliment to the first) is to put them out of business by putting pressure on clients.
When a part of society wanted seal hunting stopped, did the europeans appeal to the conscience of Newfoundland seal hunter?? nope, … they made it POLICALLY IN CORRECT to wear seal fur.
Now this isn’t a rant against northamerican indian’s traditional values, so don’t flame me. We have similar problems stemming from other cultures.
Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
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[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 February 2005).]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 February 2005).]
That’s a bad thing.
Conversation efforts have been working in the Eastern U.S. I have seen bald eagles several along the Delaware River, and last summer even saw a juvenile bald eagle flying down the middle of the Delaware.
Just to weigh in with a differing concern.
I don’t believe ANYONE should be allowed to ‘use’, ‘kill’, ‘consume’, etc., an endangered species like the Bald Eagle.
Native American ‘Indians’ INCLUDED.
This bowing to their ‘culture’ is overblown.
Some folks from China believe that the use of powdered Rhino horn is beneficial to them, yet are they to be allowed to kill these animals at will to get the horns?
Cultures in the Carribean have sacrificed different animals, as have many others, for religious reasons. Should they be allowed to practice this now?
Why can’t the Native Americans use ‘imitaiton’ eagle feathers in their ceremonies? It certainly doesn’t keep them from conducting the event. Nor would it ‘change’ it in any functional way. So they would have to ‘modify’ ot ‘change’ some to accomodate the law. We ALL have to do that. Whats WRONG with it?
If your beliefs were that you should be able to kill and eat all you can catch, since your great great great grandfather was able to, why is THAT any different.
The laws written to protect our natural resources should apply to all, regardless of where they were born, what they may choose to believe, or what they think their ‘culture’ entitles them to.
Making changes, adapting to the changing world, both culturally and physically, is what human progress is all about.
Having different ‘classes’ of citizens under the law, with ‘priveledges’ based solely on heredity, is, frankly, disgusting if not appalling.
The benefits of citizenship are extended to all with the understanding that belonging to that group requires subjecting ourselves to the rules or laws that apply equally to all.
If protecting the Eagle, or any other creature, is considered beneficial to the whole, then such protection should be enforced equally accross the population.
AND, as far as I’m concerned, doing the ‘correct’ thing in todays world means NOT killing Bald Eagles. I find abhorrent anyone that does so, regardless of whether or not it’s ‘allowed’. You can still do the right thing, regardless of the law.
ANY ‘culture’ that advocates the killing of endangered species or taking more than the allowed legal limits of fish or game because their ancestors did so is worthy only of disdain.
I know this opinion isn’t ‘politcally correct’, but I don’t particularly care. Then again, maybe it SHOULD be. Chris is correct, making such deeds ‘politically incorrect’ may help stop such practices EVEN among groups that are ‘allowed’ to do such things.
Buddy
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Few years ago, a mating pair of Bald Eagles built a nest on White Bear Lake, in White Bear Lake, Minnesota (city 12 miles NE of Saint Paul, Minnesota). The nest was in the top of a tree right at the shoreline of the lake. The area around the tree was posted off limits by the DNR, so the Eagles could not feel pressure from the curious human urge to have to see a Bald Eagle up close.
The hope that the pair would find the area, safe, and find enough food to start raising young. Eagles mate for life, and return to the same nest every year.
Over the 1st winter, some unknown person, cut the tree down. I think the area was remote enough, and chainsaw motors and snowmobile motors sound very similar.
Anyway, all was not lost. The mated pair of Bald Eagles, found a new tree to build a nest the next season, over on Bald Eagle Lake. So there was a happy ending after all.
~Parnelli
Buddy,
Thanks for your thoughts.
As I mentionned on another thread, I’m often a bit outspoken. This doesn’t just apply to relatively “annonomous” i*NET BOARDS, but also in my professional life.
As a forester, I sit on the managing boards for over 4 million hectares (almost 10 million acres) of PUBLIC forest lands here in Quebec. Cultural and traditional use of these northern boreal forests is the #1 issue (be it native indians or other usage groups).
Real discussions started about 10 years ago. You should have been there when users “thought” that they had the RIGHT to keep doing things just 'cause they had been there doing it for generations. I’m a bit vulgar (I admitt) when citing examples, but my fellow board members got the message when I reminded them that the abuse of children and wives was long standing and accepted “tradition” back when. … Does that give me the right to keep it up ?? 
Traditions die hard, especially when governments are “affraid” of overseas public opinion.
Sorry for the rant , … LF or JC, if this is over board, just delete it.
Hopefully one day, users of natural resources will get it into their head that what we have the opportunity to do,(hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, cottages etc) is truly a privilege (even)in a free society, and not a right.
Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
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[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 February 2005).]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 February 2005).]
Hey Folks,
As I understand it, it is unlawful for
any person in North America to cause harm to
or harrass the bald eagle. There are laws
in place and they are being enforced.
However, eagles will continue to die.
They will die from old age, disease,
accidents, and poaching. The government has
established proceedures where these dead
birds can be made available to Native
Americans for ceremonial purposes. The
eagle has played an important role in Native
American tradition for many hundreds of
years. The alternative I suspose would be
to make it illegal for Native Americans to
possess eagle feathers and to destroy them.
I fail to see how this will aid the eagles.
As I understand it, the biggest threat
the eagles have faced is as a result of
poisens and fertilizers used in farming.
These problems were identified and resolved.
The eagles are no longer on the endangered
list and from everything I can read are
doing quite well in North America. The
recovery of the bald eagle is considered a
major achievement in conservation efforts.
While the current situation with a poacher,
or poachers, is troubling, there are laws
in place and competent authorities to
enforce them and the problem WILL be
resolved. I see no reason to cast
aspersions on any sector of our society or
to change laws which are obviously working.
The eagle is alive and well in North America
and continues to thrive. We can all
contribute to their well being by keeping a
watchful eye on them and dropping a dime on
anyone who fails to obey existing laws. My
$.02. Warm regards, Jim
Well said Jim. I seriously doubt the government procedures for giving feathers from birds that are already dead to Native Americans is harming the population.
Jude
Small flies work best. Elephants eat peanuts.
www.customflys.com
Jim,
I agree that an eagle that had been found dead (say a road kill), could be given away. The wildlfe dept here does that with moose for needy families.
The problem is, when there are legitimate, but rare sources of anything available, the illgal sources crop up.
It much easier to create an environnement where possession is illegal, tha way the game wardens don’t have to pose the question of source.
Law are for law abiding people, … those people that laws try to target really don’t give a darn. On occassions, restrictive laws only help in upping the “street” price of something.
True, there are elements in the environnement that led to the decline of eagles, then again, why not control with a vigor those thing which we can to give nature the best hand possible.
I mean, I don’t have control over commercial fishing for Salmo salar, but I practice C&R any way. Every little bit counts.
Tight lines.
Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
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Hi, buddy, native americans can not kill or obtain eagle parts any diffrent than anyone else leagly. You have to get a federal permit and are put on a waiting list to recieve a frozen eagle or eagle parts from the eagle bank in Origon, i belive it is. These birds are road kills or bird illeagllly killed and confiscated by the game wardens or dropped feathers from zoos or other liscensed eagle handler. Anyone, native or otherwize can get the permit if for the right reasons such as native american cerimonies or to be used as teaching aids and i think several other reasons. The laws as applied to us NAs is not very clear actually, such as we can give one of our leaglly obtained feathers to another NA for cerimonial use but does not specify wether the person recieving the feather must have a permit. We most times make a copy of our permit to pass on with the feather as proof of were it came from and that in fact it was obtained leaglly. I understand that DNA records are kept from each bird from the eagle bank as a refrense to identify wether they are leagle or otherwise if needed.While there are most certainly native americans that are poachers too, no true spiritial native american i know of would EVER kill an eagle for the feathers, and in fact historically, only one tribe, the cherokee, ever in the past killed the eagle for feathers, they were obtained from LIVE birds. And even among the cherokee, the person that killed the bird was a single appointed person who understood the propper way and in fact was concidered unclean after killing one and had to under go a ritual cleansing before comming back into a village. The cherokee do not of coarse do that today, this was do many years ago when the eagles were far from being endangered. Most NA i know would be the FIRST people to turn someone in for killing an eagle today.Again, anyone,NA or white or whatever, can obtain eagle parts from the eagle bank if for the reasons for use as required by the federal government. Matt
Thank you Matt,
That was my understanding of how it works in the US (today as well as traditionally).
What I was wondering about relates back to the story that SheTies posted, … It was obviously poachers,… What market did they (hope to) sell to ??
Say for instance, in your community, a box of eagle feathers showed up on a neighbours kitchen table, would people ask questions??
Hope that I’m not coming across as an “anti” traditional activities.
'fur instance, in many places, the importation and/or possession of certain martial arts weapons is illegal. So, you want to practice a traditional technic, … What to do ? Well I’ll use an imitation. Same balance, same effect, same technic.
If I really needed to cut “something”, it’d be a lot less expensive and less trouble to procure and use an alternative.
Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
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[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 27 February 2005).]
fcch, i know that i would ask questions for sure. I have in fact been offered eagle feathers by other NAs for money. And yes i will turn them in.I would hazzard a guess that the eagle poaching that is going on in she ties post probably is Native Americans or at least being done to sell to native americans. She says they were being killed for just the tail feathers i believe. Most NAs highly prise the tail feathers so it sounds that that is more than likely there market. That is a terrible shame as it casts a bad light on the rest of us.I am a diehard traditional cherokee myself and i and many i know prize our eagle feathers as one of our most treasured possesions that we take special care for and many of our feathers are from close friends that we recieved at cerimonies. In fact our feathers from the bank have little meaning to us unless passed to one another for vey special reasons. Many of these feathers are even passed on to our children and families for many generations.A lot of use even specify that certain of our feathers are to be burried with us when we pass on. A very dear elderly friend of mine , a mekko or traditional chief of our cerimonial grounds in Oklahoma requestedthat some gifts that he recieved from me be burried with him when he died about seven years ago.It was like he took a personal part of me to be with him and has been a big comfort to me, as he was the person that i looked up to as an example for me and his passing is still hard for me when i think of him. I am sorry for the rant, but, that one post i took offense at as it seemed very predjudaced to me by someone that knows nothing or cares nothing , about other cultures, feelings or beliefs. Matt
I should also add that an artificial eagle feather will not replace the real thing. We feel that eagle feathers hols a certain spiritial ‘power’ for want of a better word. Real eagle feathers can do several things that i will not go into here, that i have witnessed with my own eyes, that many here would find hard to belive anyway. Also, there are other feathers that are held as high or higher than eagles, among diffrent tribes, such as a white herron feather among the Creeks or wild turkey among some of the Luisiana tribs like the Homsa, or the anhinga or water turkey. There are certain things that we DO in fact use as substitutes for things when possible. While some of this may seam silly to some, they are VERY serious to some of us native americans. None of these things though, do i think important enough to endanger any of our surrounding creation, as we believe that we are created from the dust of the earth, the same dirt our forfathers came from , the same that all animals, birds and plants came from and the same dirt we will all one day return to, thus we are all related. Matt
Matt,
Didn’t sound like a rant to me. It sounded more like FACTS being conveyed accompagnied with personal convictions and beliefs, … and more importantly, communicated in a respectful and honest manner.
As for me, my beliefs and convictions are a part of everything I say and what I do (and thus what I am).
Tight Lines …
Christopher Chin
Jonquiere Quebec
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