I spent the entire weekend fishing and came across a pretty good mix of fishermen. At some point on Sunday afternoon, it occurred to me that flyfishermen generally just seemed NICER. I always thought the contrary and was under the impression that flyfishermen were somewhat haughty and thought they were “superior” in pretty much every way to baitfishermen. Whats funny is that all the flyfishermen I encountered were considerate, friendly, and pretty much more observant of others. Baitfishermen on the other hand fished the same holes as me (with seemingly no regard to the fact that there were MILES of stream that they could have fished), as well plopping their lunky lures in holes, wading across shallows that held feeding trout, and crashing through the woods like a bunch of buffalo. I know the responses here will be biased, but maybe you all find OTHER flyfishermen to be inconsiderate as opposed to baitfishermen? I’d love to hear…
Do not consider all bait fishermen alike. The good bulk of bait fishermen is as you described…but there are some bait fishermen (and spin fishermen in general) who are great fishermen and know the waters very well, and are also very courteous.
I do not consider all fly fishermen alike either. I’m not talking about technique, I’m talking about friendliness. I’ve met a couple of fly fishermen who are just plain rude and do similar things as the bait fishermen you describe.
I used to be a spin fishermen myself, and fish the same way I do today in terms of giving people room and courtesy/friendliness. I just fly fish, which is nothing more than a different technique.
“If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective.”
[This message has been edited by Spud (edited 16 May 2005).]
I can’t think of a problem I’ve had with bait and/or spin fishermen. Once in a while there is what I would call a “class” comment – such refering to “you guys” when talking about fly fishing. I guess fly fishermen tend to be more upscale (myself excepted, of course).
Bait fishermen are much more likely to keep fish – but if it’s legal, it’s ok with me.
However, I think fly fishermen require more social distance – the reasons might have to do with the fact that fly fishing requires more room to cast (on the whole).
Therefore the notions of when one is crowding another fisherman’s space are different.
No offense to either, but have you ever observed an Italian and an Englishman talking? The Italian moves closer because he’s trying to get to a comfortable conversational distance, and the Englishman backs up because he feels the Italian is encroaching on his “personal space”. It’s all cultural.
I happen to think that a similar thing happens between Easterners and Westerners in the U.S. Westerners sometimes feel that the Easterner is “in their face” all the time.
Basically, I don’t think it’s that the bait/spin fishers are being rude, it’s partly that they don’t recognize the same notions of what rude is. Who are we to demand an extra amount of room on stream, anyway?
I think it all has to to do with sportsmanship. I have only started flyfishing in the last 3 years and have come across a lot of non sportsmen. For example: when I am bait fishing on a lake and some one trolling on a certain path not far from shore will not deviate his path because they are trolling at a certain depth. Or the guy who comes in 50 feet up or downstream from you not asking which way you are headed. I have no proplem with someone who asks which direction you are headed to come in that close. I think it all has to do with the person not so much the method in which he or she is fishing.
That being said… Lets fish.
I have seen it all from all types of fishermen but one common thread seems to be stocking.
I have the luxury to fish mostly non-stocked waters for trout and in them I have encountered for the most part, courteous fisherman who respect one another in regards to space and the like. Most of my regular fishing is on catch and release waters that permit fly and spin and many of the spin guys are some of the most respectful anglers I?ve ever met.
But on stocked waters, especially close to or the same day as a stocking I have encountered some of the rudest and discourteous bait, spin, and fly fishermen you would ever want to meet. I?ve had fly-guys crowd me worse than any bait fisherman on opening day and I?ve had words with quite a few and took a swipe at a few others.
I just don?t understand what drives people to such behavior over some miserable cruddy stocked fish that in most cases doesn?t measure much more than 10?.
I don’t care how you fish all I ask is a little respect for who got to what hole first and a little room to move on so someone else can fish it.
Hey, don’t knock us worm dunkers and FF wannabes. 
(Note: I still spincast and am interested in learning FF soon)
Anyway, I agree with BFB’s observations about room needed for casting. You can crowd spin/bait fisherman closer together than flyfishing because casting distances are not as great, nor is the room needed to cast as great as FF. Not saying that there are not people who deliberately crowd others when the feeding frenzy is on and the rest of the stream/lake/whatever is fished only lightly. However, you can get greater density with other fishing methods and still not “crowd” anyone out or cause interference. Although I have fished one stream when I was a kid where it was almost shoulder to sholder, although the stream was only 6’ across, at best so you did not need much room at all to cast. (Reading Dave Micus’ article on trout fishing, he’d have double hauled his fly into someone’s car or a tree far from the other shore. <VBG> )
One point that has not come up in this thread that I think is also an important point, at least in some areas, is that development is encroaching on stream/lake/whatever access so that there are fewer and fewer spots to fish, at least along the shoreline, which is what I do as I don’t own a boat. I am lucky to be in an area that has a good size river that currently has a city’s easement on the banks of the river to protect it from development, however, not all of the shoreline that’s protected is easy to get to and the entire river access is not protected either. This situation, unfortunately, makes the crowding factor worse. I don’t know how it is elsewhere in the country, but along the Right Coast, at least, it appears to me that anykind of shoreline is being developed (and done at a very quick pace) as people want waterfront property, so its highly desirable, even for people who don’t fish or boat.
I agree with the general theme of these responses.
One thing that was not been brought up though is a difference in knowledge that may contribute to thinking someone is being “rude”. After all, most FF’ers have fished bait on their way to fishing the proper way. However, many bait fisherman have no knowledge of fly fishing. I know that I may have done many things in the days before I took up fly fishing that I would never do today. Sharing a fishing area too closely, tromping up next to a FF’er and asking questions, casting a lure or bait into a pool of rising fish. I didn’t consider these rude at the time because I didn’t know any better. Now I do. I wish someone had taken the time to educate me earlier rather than writing it off to bad behaviour. Of course, not everyone is as willing to be educated as I am.
Fish more, work less!
Right on, Rick B.! My sentiments exactly. And, actually, if it were not for this website, I would probably still make those mistakes due to not being informed.
Yes JC we all had the worms. My dad was a strict flyfisher when I was young and found worms hidden in my pockets a few times.
Bill
If you want to see some fly fishermen with some bad manners go to the Church Pool on the Farmington River (CT). That’s a textbook crowding situation. I was there recently and I made it a point to move way downstream like almost 200 meters from the gaggle old farts casting to some of the 8,000 fish the state had just stocked. You would have thought that all 8,000 were right there under the bridge… My buddy and I started catching fish and a bunch of just had to break off and join us.
I have never been rude or encroached, even as a kid. I am just that kind of respectful guy. I didn’t have to be taught or to learn how to be that way. I just are. I also kinda secretely pride myself on not placing any group of people as a certain…uh…way. That’s sort of like wetting your pants. It gives you a warm feeling but nobody else knows about it. I agree with JC. I don’t pre-judge. But now, having said that, I moved here last year and joined the local fly fishing club. I found them to all be gentlemen and ladies with a lot of class. I feel right at home with these people…comfortable…sort of hey, I have finally found a bunch of people that I tune right in with. I do indeed put them in a different…uh…grouping…and I don’t know the why. But I do find them to be great people. I have no other fly club to compare to…but this point seemed so noticable to me. That they were a certain type of people…and I felt like I belong there. So, in the main…I do feel that fly fishermen & women are a cut above the crowd. And I am not trying to put me there. They just seem to be great people to me as a whole.
Jim
Being considerate or inconsiderate are individual behaviors, regardless of the type fishing we choose. As stated on previous posts here, most of us started out dunking worms & I would say our level of consideration with FF gear is no different than it was with other types of gear. Granted, there are other things to consider, such as “casting room” & “pool position”, but basic manners hold true. I’ve mentioned before that one of the best things my Dad taught me was that the FIRST thing to learn BEFORE undertaking any sport is to understand the considerations to be shown others. Great advice that has served me well.
Mike