Eric for me it’s is about better vs no so good. There are many vises that don’t hold a hook like I want a hook held. I own 3 vises in that search for hook holding power that I was after. My Dyna-King holds a hook whether it is a size 18 dry or a number 2 bass deer bug that I am tying. Yes it will still go larger and smaller but the idea is that it holds hooks and does it really well. I became frutrated with hooks slipping under thread tension alone. To me 8/0 thread better break before the hook moves in the jaws. I’ll extend that to 6/0 as well. Now GSP 200 will bend a hook but my jaws will still hold.
I tied on a Thompson A model for a long time…but since I never used any hook larger than about a 12…cant speak for its ability to hold say a 2/0 size.
If that so-called test was anything more than some blowing their own horn…why didnt they test anything more $$ than $150?? There is a WHOLE BUNCH of rigs that cost more than 150.
Whereas I can see why someone would be “P.O’d” to buy say a $50 vice and come up with a bummer…how would you feel if you shelled out $350 and UP and still had a bummer???
In the FWIW column, D.H. Thompson, original maker of the Thompson A, and other models, vise went out of business about 4 years ago. Anything in the marketplace today as a “new” Thompson vise is a knockoff.
Redietz, I agree with you 100%. I make that claim every year to my beginning tiers class. Just made it to the new group on the 11th.
Cheers!
I second this Clay! I use a DK Supreme
I didn’t get the impression that they were blowing their own horns. I felt the review was pretty subjective considering there were three individual opionions. I think the reason they kept this review to vises under $150 was because that is the price range that those starting out fly tying typically gravitate to. And I think anything above $150 is whistles and bells while still maintaining good functionality.
I believe the problem with the Thompson A vise in the review was it was an OK vise just not an OK $50 vise. It seems that ever time on this board and others someone asks about a lower end vise it immediately dissolves into more expensive vises which we all know are good and bringing this back to the original question, not caring about Good upper end vices which we all have our favorites.
Is there a bad vise on the market that sells for more than $50? I know some of the really cheap ones are junk, and you can find some iffy ones for around $25. I’m not looking for better or worse list but can any one name one that wont do he primary function of a vise which is hold a hook in most sizes or falls apart after a few weeks of tying? ETC.
That might be Eric…I dont know?? BUT…I feel that anyone should buy the best equipment he can AFFORD. To be using lessor equipment a person is only hamstringing themselves. Rods…hooks…vises…etc.
Of course if one cant exceed the capabilitys of his existing equipment…then its just ego being fed.
I tied on an “A”…and Im the sort that can break an anvil ( equipment…not brand…:lol:) and it never let me down. I even bought the midge jaws for it which is the size I typically use…so much so that when I upgraded to my DK…I purchased the midge jaws along with it.
Yes, several…wait, haven’t we already had this conversation?
Let’s try again. If you believe that all a vise does is hold a hook, then amount you pay above the cheapest possible vise you can find that holds a hook is wasteful. Not sure why this is a convincing argument, but you do hear it an awful lot here.
If you are trying to say that you believe there are no bad vises >$50, why don’t you just say so? It seems disingenuous to simply invite everyone else to do so. I also cannot fathom why you dismiss the ‘buy-an-expensive-vise-advice’ when you yourself tie on a higher end vise…and why did you decide get so “expensive” a vise if there are so many cheap alternatives?
After touring the Catskill Flyfishing museum …
Screw the vises - how 'bout pliers, vise-grips, clips and contraptions of all sorts, shapes and sizes.
Then again how 'bout Lee Wulff - fingers only!! (I’m sure there are others)
“they didn’t need no steenkin vises!”
And my first vise was a Thompson Model A - gave it to my buddy’s son for Christmas a couple years ago hoping he’d get into tying - not yet but it’s ready for him when he is.
At the Northcoast Fly Fishers show in Cleveland, OH earlier this month Eric Austin (Just Old Flies section) demonstrated tying a married wing wet fly without a vise, very cool! Do you think if I gave him $50.00 he would come to my house and hold the hook for me while I tie a fly on it? He really gave a great presentation on tying old style wets with married wings.
[SIZE=“4”] I do not want this post hijacked, I am fighting the tendency for posts such as this to be side tracked for a number of reasons. [/SIZE]
First often posts such as this one with in a few posts its hijacked by people not answering the question but expressing an opinion not asked for and not wanted. If the person who asked the question wants more info he can ask again. (and yes I have been guilty of this)
Second I am a believer that there is a tendency in Fly tying along with most things for people to become Equipment Junkies trying to make up for lack of practice and skill with the wrong belief that a new vise, bobbin etc will make them a better tier.
Third no mater how much money a person has, I believe for 99% of the people out there they should start out tying with a basic vise. IE an older model A, griffen 1a or 2a etc. then after six months of tying or so move up when they have the knowledge to know what they need and want they can then retire the basic vise to sit on a shelf, add it to a field kit, or give it to another beginner to help them on there way.
Now I want to know if I can tell a friend etc who is just beginning to tie to go find a good basic vise for a little over $50 or if there is junk out there to beware of.
If you want to start a thread about High end vises costing over $350 more power to you. I will read the thread but wont be participating as I have never tied on one. I will also not come in and start hijacking the thread telling you why you should not buy a $350 vise as I A. Don’t really care what you spend you money on and B. Believe that as long as you kids are fed and your housing bill is paid for you should do what makes you happy. if that is fishing with a dowel or a gatti or tying by holding you hooks in your fingers or using a high end vise.
Just my thoughts
Eric
LOL if I could get Eric Austin to come to my house to tie I would hold the hooks for him in order to have a front row seat and the privlidge of asking questions…
Eric
Getting back to the topic. I guess I’m the only old-timer I know who actually hated the Thompson A I tied on a couple of years back, though I’m not sure I tied on an original, probably a knock off. My problem wasn’t so much the jaws as I recall as much as it was the C-Clamp moving all over the place. Conditions weren’t optimal either, motel room furniture. In the '60s I dreamed of owning a Thompson A, the vise I had back then was crap.
For me, a good vise has to hold the hook like rock. A multitude of vises fill that bill wonderfully. Of the lower priced vises I’ve owned I really like the Griffin 2A. It isn’t especially “convenient”, but built like a battleship and holds the hook very well when fiddled with enough. I still have it and use it from time to time. All the really cheap vises ($20 range)from my distant past have been thrown away, and rightly so.
I’m amazed at how many really good vises are out there in all price ranges. I think this thread points out that it is difficult to come up with a vise that’s just no good at all in the over $50 price range. We can all argue about the niceties and ergonomics of the expensive vises, but it’s hard to argue with the fact that all the mainline vises over $50 are pretty decent these days, and that’s great.
Eric
You can’t just ask which vises are are bad. The problem is one of quality control. Inexpensive products have less quality control than do expensive products as a general rule. You may have an inexpensive vise that works very well but another by the same maker could be junk.
Eric,
You’re not the only person with less than stellar experiences with a Thompson Model A vise. My first real vise was a Thompson Model A that I bought in 1974 and Thompson was apparently having some QA problems at the time. There was a casting flaw in the jaw where a bit of metal was missing. It was right where you’d clamp the hook. As I recall there were not so many vise choices back then and while I should have looked for another Model A I bought that one knowing there was a problem. I’ll attribute that stupidity to youthful enthusiasm. A few months of use later, stress caused a piece to break off the other side of the jaws. The vise was sort of usable but it didn’t always hold a hook perfectly. I was a money poor grad student living in Pennsylvania at the time and fishing was my passion so I kept using it.
Some years after I became gainfully employed I ordered replacement jaws from Thompson and the new jaws were flawless and shaped a bit differently than my initial pair. Apparently their QA issues were fixed. Everything I bought was from the real Thompson vise company (still have the original red box <g> not that I’m a pack rat or anything). I tied with that as my primary vise until about 18 months ago when I got the uncontrollable urge to get a rotary vise. Like most of my “gotta have this” urges, I really didn’t need a new vise, I just wanted to play with a new toy.
I can’t say I ever had a problem with the old vise not clamping tightly to the table but at least my initial experiences with the Thompson Model A left a lot to be desired. Over the years I did pick up a second Model A with midge jaws, and I really did tie flies down to #28s - not that I ever succeeded catching a trout with such a small fly.
So, your not the only one with Thompson Model A problems but I’ll opine that the design is excellent for what it is and I sure wouldn’t challenge anyone who said more flies have been tied on it than all other vises combined.
Greybeard
Yes ERIC some do highjack a post --they never read the beginning. I feel if you want a good vice for a little over $50 you should buy from a known manufacture. I teach and Griffin has been my choice.Seven 2As for the kids and two others for my use. One non rotary and a full rotary. If the kids cant break them no one can. American made lifetime guarentee and help a 800 number away. Bill
Both of my Thompsons ( 1 model A and 1 model 360 SLT) have fully machined jaws!
All Thompson Vises and Thompson Ceramic Spring Wire bobbins are unconditionally guaranteed against defects or breakage when used according to the manufacturer’s instructions, from the original purchase date and for the lifetime of the original registered purchaser.
Thanks for a great thread to everyone who participated, I have enjoyed reading your replies. And I think that what I thought of originally is brought out, that there really isn’t a lot of junk out there in the 50 plus range and that we as tiers have a great selection of vises should we need one.
Eric
Esquire, I missed your posting in the crush, sorry about not recognizing it. I agree about the Griffin 2A my second vise was a 2A I bought it for about 25 as it was one that had been a display model, had to pick up an O ring for it. It is a great little vise.
The Terra Silverado, retails at this point for under our $50 limit, but it is close enough to count and other reviews that I found agree with your opinion of this vise.
Thanks for your input to this thread
Eric