I am slowly working my way through my first box of 50 hooks. These are the only hooks I have purchased and so my experience is very limited. The hooks are Mustad 94833 Size 18 (Dry Fly Hook).
I had no idea hooks were so flexible and alot of the time the flimsyness of the hooks makes tying difficult. My question is, “Is this normal?”. Are all size 18 hooks flimsy and flex alot? I am tieing using 8/0 thread so it’s not like I am pulling on them with rope, but still =).
Here’s a few pics for reference. By the way, if you feel sorry for my pathetic vice I’m in the market for a good gently used one. I’m sure anything beats having to use a screwdriver to clamp a hook. :oops:
the 94833 hook is made with very fine wire. Most dry flies are tied on 94840 hooks (if you want to stay with Mustad) which is a one times fine wire. The 94833 is a three times fine wire.
This makes for a very light hook which is useful at times but can be very flimsy.
Ok… :shock: Let’s see if I got this.
1x Fine wire = Thin
2x Fine wire = Thinner
3x Fine wire = Thinnest
Correct?
I have no preference with brand name such as Mustad, but this is just what the guy at the shop picked out for me. I am deffinately open to everyones expert opinions, so please chime in. My only stipulation is on size. I promissed someone I would tye them some 18~24 size flies, and so I am practicing from the largest first.
How does the “Fine-ness” play into the picture? Does weight at that level between the above mentioned gauges make or break a dry fly?
I think you need to go to the [url=http://www.killroys.com/hooks/hookchrt.htm:6f01e]Killroy Hook Charts[/url:6f01e], and printout (mark the site as a Favorite), his hook charts. There is one general chart and 5 refined charts that relate one hook brand, against the other 4 major hook brands, as to which hooks they have that are similar for use.
The printout on your printer will have to be in Landscape, to get all the information on each sheet.
The issue is ‘weight’, and for a dry fly that can be critical.
I like the Mustad 94833 for dry flies because they are easier to keep on the surface with this fine and light hook, especially on sparser ties.
That fine wire will flex, as you’ve found, but that’s not a bad thing. In most instances, you’ll get some flex with even standard wire hooks in that size using 8/0 thread, but just not as much. Properly tempered hook wire should flex without fracturing.
If you feel you need to apply more pressure and the hook is flexing to the point whee it’s makeing it hard to accomplish a given task, just support the hook eye with a finger as you tie. You don’t want to flex the hook to the point where is is ‘bending’ or ‘deforming’, so a little support here and there might be in order.
how about getting a few nymph hooks, some wet fly hooks. THey are heavier. I have been tying for a couple years and have trouble with fine hooks. You might gain some confidence tying with the heavier hooks and then you could try the fine dry fly hooks again.
From your pictures it appears that your vice is not tight on the hooks and that makes it tough to tie as well. You will do just fine. I like your enthusiasm.
Paul
i tie my sz 18 dries on mustad 94845BL. They don’t flex much at all, but i know too much flex is hard to tie on. i use a very light wire hook on midges mostly. How long have you been tying?? 1 type of hook would drive me crazy. i am slowly gaining more hooks, but am quickly using them. Are you first tying on sz 18?? Thats a tough size to start on. If your having trouble with the size, try a sz 12 or 14.
Thanks for all the comments, and sorry for the group response. I technically tied my first 3 flies 6 years ago. I was still in college and I got suckered into one of those “work at home” scams where I was going to make a few extra bucks on the side at my own leisure by tying flies. After sending in I think $40 I got the vice in the picture (it used to have a knob to tighten the jaws, but the threads died two weeks ago and therefore the screw), a basic bobbin, hackle pliers, bodkin, and a small assortment of hooks, feathers, gold tinsel, black thread, and green charnel. I quickly realized I’d been scammed, gave the 3 flies (I think they were supposed to be woolly buggers)to my dad for Christmas, and pretty well forgot fly fishing and fly tying until this summer when all the pieces in the puzzle fell together. Backpacking trip in the sierras, a borrowed fly rod, and a small hobby fund I had been building up with money I had previously spent on cigarettes. (1.5yrs smoke free now )
Since then I have been very fortunate to have found FAOL. No one around me that I know of is into fly fishing and so the advice here has been priceless. Not only the answers to my own personal posts, but also the wealth of information already contained and available at the tweak of the keyboard. I even bought my first rod & reel here at FAOL, an Orvis TLS 905-4, from Fly Goddess?s “gently used” collection of spares.
Anyways, back to the topic, I have used the remainder of size 12 & 14 hooks from the initial starter?s kit, and am now working with the size 18 Mustad 94833?s I purchased last weekend. The reason I started this thread was to get a better knowledge of hooks and their qualities, and now I feel a lot more informed. Thanks!
Oh, and at the risk of hijacking my own thread… I have been given an offer on a Thompson A Clamp vice from another FAOL member in response to my wanted post. Would this be a good replacement for the one shown above? I’m sure anything would be, but thought I would get a larger opinion or see if anyone else has a spare vice to part with.
The Thompson Model A is basically the ‘standard’ against which all other vises are judged. It’s been ‘the’ basic vise formany years, and has everything you ‘need’ to tie just about any fly you’d ever want to.
There are may other vises that have more ‘features’, options, and such, but there aren’t many flies that can’t be tied on the Model A.
That being said, a vise is just a vise. All it ‘has’ to do is hold a hook securely in the position you want it to be.
Thousands of flies have been tied with vise grip pliers used as a fly tying ‘vise’. Works okay. Some very prominent fly tiers have worked without ANY vise, just holding the hook in their hands.
Up to you if you want to ‘upgrade’ from what you have. It’s certainly not critical to the fish in any way.
The Thompson “A” is an excellent starting vise. A lot of great tiers still tie on the “A” that they started on.
You need to be selective about the “A” you buy, however. The Thompson company went under because they started importing parts on their cheaper vises, with corresponding lower quality, a few years ago. Quality declined, and they eventually went under. (An extremely knowledgable supplier advised me of such.)
I hated to see Thompson go under, because their service group had been great to me in the past, and I considered them highly.
At any rate, look for an older Thompson model “A” when you buy one. If you buy one in the Red box, it will probably be an older one, and it should be better than the newer ones which have a whitish corrugated cardboard box. Condition is paramount, however.
The “A” you buy will be a better vise than any of the low priced Indian or Pakistani imports you see. (The low quality imports are often highly polished and look great, but the quality is not there, and you will be disappointed with the vise. Such imports typically have a fairly short lifetime before something will either bend or break on it. My cheapo lasted about 2.5 years.)
You can buy a good older “A” on Ebay for about $20 (or less) much of the time (shipping will be extra.)
Again if you do this, look for the red box. If they don’t show a red box, I would probably either ask the seller if it had a red box, or would not bid on it.
I spend my smoke money on bullets now. At least I don’t smoke.
I try to use the same hooks for everything. It makes it easier on me to buy replacement hooks. I use either “standard” or whatever looks kinda sturdy. I have more luck with caddis patterns than with lighter mayfly patterns so hook weight hasn’t been an issue with that monsterous tuft of elk hair as a float.
Some tyers like to get the hook to match the puropose. Again, with my gun habit I try to standardize. So I have cash for both hobbies. And I also spend my saved “functional hook” money on those darn’d expensive salmon hooks. CURSE YOU BOB MARRIOT AN YOUR CATALOGUE!!!
Just FYI
You are getting too interested for a beginner’s vise. Unless money is an issue I would suggest you go to a sponsor here, BT’s Flyfishing…uh…Al Beatty and Gretchen and buy the Danvise. It is a true rotary. I bougt a non rotary and the first Montana Nymph I worked on so hard I thought looked great. Took it out of vise and the opposite side which I could not see during tying was ugly. By tying in a rotary method you would see those flaws and correct it before you finished it and already added head cement. It feels like you are going to be enough interested to have a good vise.
All hooks same? I know the author of a book, who said it represented something like 2,400 hours of notes and research on the lakes in our area. He now ties ALL his flies on a size 10 mustad 3x.
Just FYI
Also Al sells video’s on tying in tru rotary style which are done on the Danvise, and other tips and tricks and stuff…all done on the Danvise. So it would be a great beginner, and for many, the only vise they ever need.
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