Am I the only one that thinks that...

Cnd rods are outrageously overpriced for being mass produced rods made in china? For instance the Specialist series costs $645 to $775. Their solstice series tops off at $695. Basically you can get a made in the USA Sage Z Axis and a nice reel or you can get a mass produced made in Chica CND. Heck, you can probably have a top rod builder special build a z axis for you for the price of a CND.

Their lines are great casting lines, but again they cost $110 compared to about $69 for other spey lines that advertise here.

I hope people read this, I dont think people realize CND’s are mass produced in China .
I dont think people would pay the prices that a top notch rod builder like Gary Anderson, Bob Meiser, or Burkheimer charges for their rods that are not only outstanding fishing rods but also works of arts (made by US(!!!) citizens) for mass produced in China rods

WOW, :shock:

nope! you’re not the only one.

Hi Jack,

Certainly no argument from me! I’m the original low-ender except of course for Dave Micus who is the grand guru of bang for the buck. When I could buy three complete Orvis Clearwater outfits for the price of one CND rod :shock: , you’re about as likely to see me streamside wearing a $12,000 mink coat as you are likely to see me fishing with one of these rip-off rods. I’m surprised they aren’t made in Nigeria, scam and rip-off capital of the world. 8T :smiley:

Personally, I’ve never even heard of this brand. BUT, does “made in China” make it bad? Or is the combination of high price tag AND made in China? After all, China is ahead of even us in certain technologies . Speaks lowly ( as opposed to highly)of our educational and societal priorities.

Mark

Personally, I think all graphite and glass rods in current production are way overpriced. Whether they are made in China or anywhere else. I don’t think there is all that much labor involved in making these rods and the raw materials probably don’t cost that much either. I suspect the most costly raw material is the cork.

I took my son to a Monster Truck show last night so I have “Proud to be an American” blood running through my veins. I pay higher gas prices because we depend on foreign oil. I pay less for products at Wal-Mart because everything they sell is made in China. I have a choice to pay for gas or shop somewhere else so I have a choice to buy quality rods made in my backyard or junk across seas. It is ridiculous that they would charge more for something with inferior quality. A fly rod is not a one time use piece of equipment like that spatula made in China is.

Most rods are high priced because of the warrenty. The better the rod, the better the warrenty.

Nice troll, “jack.” How many boards to you plan on posting this message?

As for the merits of offshore rods, the market will speak…

Well… CND’s line goes from $375 to $700 or so. You’d be hard pressed to get a Sage or Winston for that kind of money. The Winston is $835 and the Sage line starts at $720 (for an ultralight 6wt) and goes up from there. I haven’t cast all of CND’s lineup, but I’ve been favorably impressed by the ones I’ve tried. They also have a much larger selection than ANY American manufacturer.

Also, Mr. Nobuo Nodera, the owner and rod designer, has been a real friend to the spey community, and has worked hard to introduce two-handed rods to the world. Go troll somewhere else.

Does anyone know if these rods are “mass produced” in China, or if perhaps CnD has some of the finest rod-makers in the world living in China making their rods there one-at-a-time by hand? I have no idea. But there is a LOT more to low production costs than cheap labor or shoddy mass production. There are things like costs of real estate, building costs, utility costs, environmental and occupational safety regulations, housing costs for employees, healthcare costs for employees, taxation, logistics costs that can actually be cheaper to ship stuff half way around the planet in a container than to have it drop-shipped from one town in Missouri to another (per unit), and all sorts of factors that go into the equation.

For many, many centuries the Chinese have made some of the world’s finest porcelain, china, silk products, inks, and…let us not forget…fireworks! And there is some really cheap crap made right here in the good ole USofA too!

No, I dont think it makes it bad, it certainly greatly decreases the price to make. I happen to think Rick Pope and TFO have done wonders for the fly fishing community by giving us rods that fish very well for a very reasonable price. And soon Meiser rods will be abailable from TFO for about $300.

The 8 weight 14 foot fli Sage is $450 (http://www.kaufmannsstreamborn.com/Cata … /SAGFLIRO/)

The Winston Vapor is $399.

Sage and winston’s warranty is lifetime for about $35. CND is $65 PLUS SHIPPING AND HANDLING after the first year.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…All this high falootin talk about the high priced rods from here, there and everywhere, and the kid in short pants with a Zebco outfit and live bait is STILL going to outfish us every time. I think JC told us that not too long ago in another post about big money equipment. I have to agree.

Try to be nice to each other cuz this one might get a little heated. :lol:

Joe

Joe;
I think you said it right!! We’ve built our own rods that will out perform the “High Dollar” ones! And yes I have a bamboo made in China, finished in the U.S. I find nothing wrong with that.
Ya All Come Down!! BBQ Ribs and good fishin"!!

[quote=“jack_smith”]

The 8 weight 14 foot fli Sage is $450 (http://www.kaufmannsstreamborn.com/Cata … /SAGFLIRO/)

The Winston Vapor is $399.

Sage and winston’s warranty is lifetime for about $35. CND is $65 PLUS SHIPPING AND HANDLING after the first year.[/quote]

I really could be wrong about this, but aren’t the low end sages and winstons made in china as well?

If you don’t like CND rods, then don’t buy one. As I mentioned earlier, I like them - a lot. This is ironic because I don’t own a CND, but do own multiple Sage and Winston rods. My next two-hander will likely be a Scott, but as far as I am concerned, CND rods look like a great value for the money, and the reviews I have read indicate that they are at least a match, performance-wise to the rods produced by American single-hand rod builders.

Here’s a review of the CND Black Spey rod.

CND ?Black Spey? 14 ft 8/9/10 rod

Nobuo Nodera at CND has a long history of producing fine spey rods and his new series called BS (Black Spey) lives up to his good reputation. I tried the 14 ft 8/9/10 rod on a windy day at the recent Japanese spey clave ( Japanese Spey Clave Report ). This rod was a cracker - light, perfectly balanced and a joy to cast. The rod is slightly slower than the action I am used to but generated fast tip speed and had enough power to handle the faster stroke that I use. The deeper action ensured even softer casts with big loops would unroll easily.

I did not try any sink tips on this rod, nor cast it with large flies, so cannot make any accurate comments as to how it would handle these, but with a mid belly length floating line and an easy casting stroke it should get the vote of approval of most spey casters.

Summary

Another find rod from the CND stable. It loaded best with around 650 grains and a mid length belly. Beginners would find this a delight with the 9/10/11 WindCutter, while more experienced casters will love a MidSpey 8/9. One of the rods of 2006 for me!

  • Simon Gawesworth

Seems alright to me. I can understand that some people like to buy only American products, and I sympathize, but I don’t think you should be so dismissive of Asian and/or European 2-handed rods. There is a much greater level of interest in spey casting in those countries compared to here. Nobuo Nodera has a pretty strong pedigree in the spey community. To each his own, I suppose.

CND’s warranty is a 1 year warranty(shipping and handling). After that, in addition to shipping and handling you have to pay $60.

Without seeing and casting them side by side, I don’t think that you can judge the quality differences between ANY rod, and certainly WHERE it was built has no bearing on it…

The rods produced for retail sale in this country by Sage, Loomis, Winston, et. al., are as ‘mass produced’ as rods built in China, Japan, England, or anywhere else. No one single individual ‘builds’ a rod for Sage. Things are done in an assembly line fashion, to keep expenses down and productivity high.

No one has a machine that does all the work required of a fly rod without human hands being involved.

The blanks are built from resins and cloths of varying materials. To build a rod from these things requires the same minimum amount of hands on time regardless of where it’s built. It might be more or less expensive based on the materials, labor rates, and care taken in the finish process, but the basic ‘process’ is pretty much the same.

Grips, reel seats, and guides have to be hand fitted to the rod. A machine doesn’t do this, even in China. Thread is wrapped on to hold the guides, by hand (even with a motor turing the rod, it still takes a skilled hand to guide it on and most commerical rod wrappers don’t use motors anyway).

The guide wrap finish is applied by hand. EVEN in a factory turning out thousands of rods (like Sage), PEOPLE still have to do this.

So, while it’s a cliche, NO rod is ‘mass produced’ if your definition of that means it’s done by machines, and ALL rods built by the major manufacturers are ‘mass produced’ if you mean built by rote in large quantities without variations.

If the implication of the origianl post is that it can’t be the equal in quality (or price) of a Sage or Winston simply because it was built in China, then that’s just bigotry.

There is nothing to make me believe that the Chinese folks who assemble these rods aren’t just as skilled, or even more skilled, than their counterparts in THIS country. China has a long and respectable history of incredible skills at handcrafts of many types. No reason to think they won’t be good at something as easy as crafting a fly rod.

We all need to understand that China is a huge population of consumers that are going to make an impact on every industry. There are skills there, not everything they produce will retain the ‘cheap junk’ clasification. As they begin to flex their growing economic muscle, we’ll be seeing their products at many price levels.

Personally, I’m looking forward to it.

Good Luck!

Buddy

how do I buy a rod 1. does it have a warenty 2. does it feel good in my hand 3. will the dealer let me cast it 4. Does it fit me when casting 5. can I afford it If four out of the five areas are met then you bet ya I will buy it. Where it is made and who made it does not matter. How it fishes, feels, and has a warrenty is all that matter to me. I used to buy only made in america products but they have out priced themselfs and the quality is not there. Sorry if I offend anyone just my two cents.

[quote=“Jordan”]

[quote=jack smith]

The 8 weight 14 foot fli Sage is $450 (http://www.kaufmannsstreamborn.com/Cata … /SAGFLIRO/)

The Winston Vapor is $399.

Sage and winston’s warranty is lifetime for about $35. CND is $65 PLUS SHIPPING AND HANDLING after the first year.[/quote]

I really could be wrong about this, but aren’t the low end sages and winstons made in china as well?

Seems alright to me. I can understand that some people like to buy only American products, and I sympathize, but I don’t think you should be so dismissive of Asian and/or European 2-handed rods. There is a much greater level of interest in spey casting in those countries compared to here. Nobuo Nodera has a pretty strong pedigree in the spey community. To each his own, I suppose.[/quote]

I really have no problem with a product being made in korea/china. In fact I love TFO rods and advocate the heck out of them. If people know that the CND is made in CHINA/Korea, I have no problem with people buying them. I think (and many people have told me this) that given their $600-$700 price range that they thought they were made in either japan or the US, and now that they know that they are mass produced in china they are really surprised they cost as much as they do.

Dont get me wrong, CND’s are in they top 10 casting rods, and which rod is number 1 is going to be different to each individuals taste. Some person will think CFB’s rods are 10 and CND are 1. Or sage z axis are 10 and cnd are 1