Is it true that the greater number of twists the better the furl?
Yes. If you twist to pigtailing or if you twist to just before breakage you end up with a tighter furl. I’m experimenting with different weights on my horizontal board to get that sweet spot with different materials. From what little I know but have gathered the info from another board the more weight I have hanging the further I’ll be able to twist without pigtailing.
FISHN50 -
In your weight experiments have you come up with an optimal weight when furling 6/0 Uni? I’ve just started trying to furl and I keep breaking at the tippet end when twisting up the legs. I’m using a drill (no weight) to twist each leg separately. I think my problem is I’m not holding constant tension on the leg as I twist it with the drill and it’s probably pigtailing. I want to try twisting under weight so I’m looking for a good starting point.
Keep tension on the leg when you are twisting. If not you will pigtail and bad. I use 3 ounces of weight on my uni thread and it seems to work just fine.
I do mine with a cordless drill motor. I apply gentle tension as I spin each leg.
When you first ‘start’ doing this, you want to spin them until they break…I ‘time’ it, then spin until just before that point. It will be different with each material you use, so keeping a notebook is helpful. You’ll want to use the same drill at the same speed, also…
I also ‘reverse’ spin the two ‘legs’ of the leader together with the drill…spin it backwards for half the initial time, before hanging them with the weight. Keeps the leader more manageable between removing it from the board and hanging…
Buddy
So I take it from your answer Buddy you feel the greater the number of twists the better the leader?
Yeah…
You are going to have to let it ‘untwist’ some, and it’s the twist that gives it strength and suppleness. So starting with as much twist as possible just seems prudent to me.
That being said, I’m sure there is a range where it will work just fine, and I doubt that if you have two leaders within that range, that the one with a bit ‘more’ twists will be any better than one with a bit less.
Buddy
I was hoping to get more discussion on this …so I’ll throw this into the question.
How many twists do you think make a difference?..50…100…or whatever???
Perhaps it’s better to talk about a percentage in relation to the length of the leader. Just for discussions sake, would 1710 twists opposed to 1950, be a noticeable quality difference for a 6 foot leader?
Karel
Duck -
I don’t think this thread can be twisted to make it simple. I got a furled brow just thinking about it. Too many variables come into play, starting with the material you are using, the configuration of the material, and the starting length of the leader.
I haven’t done much in the way of experimenting, and have only built a handful of different leader lengths with different materials and only several different configurations. But even with that limited experience / variety, I can tell you that the number of twists for what seems to be an optimum leader built on my jig will vary significantly.
For example, my basic leader is Danville 210 Flymaster Plus in a 10-8-6 configuration with a starting length of about 84" with proportions of 40% butt, 30% mid and 30% tip. Using a hand powered geared system ( some of you have seen the pics ) it twists both legs simultaneously the same number of twists - in the case of the basic leader it is 450 cranks which is 1350 twists ( the gear system has a 3:1 ratio ).
If I go to a 14-12-10 configuration with the same material and the same starting length, it takes considerably less than the 450 cranks to get an optimum twist. If I shorten the 10-8-6 configuration to a 48" starting length it takes even fewer cranks to get there. I did a couple level leaders ( same number of strands for the entire length ) and the number of cranks required was directly related to the starting length of the material.
Other than the 210 Danville, I’ve used Kevlar fly tying thread and fly line backing. Doing my basic leader substituting the Kevlar for the Danville, the optimum number of cranks is much lower - 350 as I recall ( gave up on Kevlar quite a while ago ). On short sections of level fly line backing leaders, I think it was in the range of 200 cranks but on the longer sections it was probably in the 400 cranks range.
So my conclusion is that the optimum number of twists is going to vary based on material, configuration, and starting length. And how many twists it would take to make a difference is going to vary accordingly. Don’t think there is any way to formulate an answer - it is going to be a matter of experimenting with the technique you use to furl leaders.
John
John,
How do you decide what is “an optimum twist” ?..I’m going to guess you go to 10% reduction?
I agree about the variable stuff…but…what I’m wondering is… if everything is equal…material , length, etc…how many twists are significant… for example …as Karel said…"would 1710 twists opposed to 1950, be a noticeable quality difference "?
All this also related to Claude Freaners statement "aim for 2100 twists for a 8’ leader, 2400 for 10’, 2700 for 12’ ". We’ve both made the same leader of 6’ length and logically think we should aim for 1800 twists. Duck got to 1950, and i think this makes for a better quality leader, but we don’t know if this is noticeable and we can’t compare as we’re both on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean.
Karel