I was just flipping through the latest Fly Tyer magazine and noticed something.
From what little I know, I thought tinsel ribbing was wrapped opposite the way of the body material. This counter wrapping makes for a sturdier body. However, I’m looking at a page full of flies that are done the same direction as the underlying body. Do I need to be corrected, or…?
Can anyone clarify this for a po’ fat white boy?
It depends on the type of fly and the materials used. In some cases the counter wrap is needed for reinforcement, in others it is better to wrap in the same direction.
For example…
Silk floss can be fragile and prone to fraying, so it’s a good canidate for the counter wrap method.
Chenille is plenty tuff but thick and bulky. By wrapping the tinsel tinsel in the same direction you can place it in the ‘valley’ between two adjacent wraps. This produces a nice smooth looking body. If you tried to counter wrap in this situtation you would end up with an uneven bumby rib, since the tinsel would sometimes lay in the valley and sometimes cross over the top of the chenille.
I counter wrap when the wire I use is a structural component, such as on a bugger. For, say, a midge, where the wire is nothing but color, I don’t worry about it. I don’t use tinsel for ribbing any more, tho.
Kid,
It could be even simpler than Kengore explained.
For many, it’s just easier to wrap in the same direction. Durability isn’t much of an issue for the fly tyers I know…the fish chew them up, but you tie so many that trying to make a fly ‘last’ isn’t as critical. If you don’t lose it to the bottom or those pesky trees and obstructions (I KNOW they jump into my backcast on purpose when I’m not looking), if it gets chewed up good, you know you did well and can just tie on another.
Besides, while many of the purists may shudder, lots of us now use glues to strengthen our flies, so the counterwrap isn’t something that is needed as much.
Buddy
i agree with buddy. durability isnt an issue. trout teeth are going to rip out tinsel or wire whether its wrapped one way or the other.
fly tyers preference on which way to wrap.
I always wrap the “right way”. For buggers, I dont use any rib, but if I did, it’d be the same, wrapped in just before the hackle, then with the hackle wrapped tightly in behind the wire. I figure, if the trout teeth are gonna cut chenille, the hackle is toast anyway.
I DO, however, rib things like prince nymphs, or anything that uses peacock herl for that matter. To get the benefits of ribbing for durability, I just wrap at a different “frequency” than what I used to wrap the herl. For example, I might make one turn of the wire to cover the same distance I covered with two turns of herl…or vice versa. The durability comes when the wraps of herl and wire intersect, and changing it up like that ensures that those intersections are evenly spaced.
but the “durability” is only where there is single point contact between the wire and the herl or whatever other material. all other areas not in direct contact is vulnerable to the trouts teeth and is not “durable”
but if a trout’s teeth cut a small area between two intersections, only that little bit will fray and fall apart, and the rest of the fly will be okay. To me, that makes the fly as a whole more durable. Obviously, one material (wire) wont change the properties of anoterh (herl), but looking at the big picture of the entire fly, the wire ribbing may well increase the fishable life of the fly.
Rather than using ribbing for reinforcement of delicate bodies like herl, it seems better to just twist the herl around the thread before wrapping this new “rope” on the hook. Besides you can then wind the body tighter with more tension than otherwise.
The reason I use wire rib as opposed to the thread twist method is because I can see a trout’s teeth cutting through tying thread as easily as it does the herl. Wire, not so much.
YMMV, though, of course. 
This is just my view.
I don’t think tinsel is a very durable material itself and provides minimal reinforcement. I find that tinsel is often the first thing to come apart on a fly.
I counter wrap with wire if the underlying material is especially fragile. For example on a pheasant tail nymph. As Cold was saying the length of the fibers between intersections is much shorter if you counter wrap the rib. You do need to be careful when tying off a counter wrapped material. The tie off wraps can have a tendency to loosen the counter wrapped material.
On most flies I wrap the rib in the same direction as everything else.
Sorry guys, I too don’t see the benefits of counter-wrapping flies. I tie far too many to work opposite of my normal rythm. My opinion is that counter-wrapping doesn’t add any benefit to such a small creation, but to each their own. Do what feels comfortable and works best for you. One of the reasons I rib is to continue the allusion of segmentation on flies, so I do see the benefits of ribbing, but with what - a million choices. I choose to use Uni wire for most ribbing applications. When I tie a Goldiribbed Hare’s Ear I will use Uni wire rather than tinsel - easier to work with. Same with a Prince nymph or similar. I’ve never been a slave to recipes for patterns unless I’m tying something for display. I usually use what works best for me and/or whatever I have at hand that might work just as well.
Do what works best, easiest and fastest for you. One of the things I like about fly tying is there are as many or as few rules as you choose. Be creative, have fun and find your own rythm and style. Nobody is going to test you when you’re done other than the fish. So find what works on them and if your local fish like a counter-ribbed -vs.- just ribbed the same direction, then do what the fish prefer. Like John Scott’s tag says: “The fish are always right”.
Kelly.
I choose to use Uni wire for most ribbing applications. When I tie a Goldiribbed Hare’s Ear I will use Uni wire rather than tinsel - easier to work with. Same with a Prince nymph or similar.
Agreed. I have some flat mylar tinsel and only use it for things like black-nose dace and similar flies.
You can tie buggers so that the wraps are all away from you over the top of the hook shank, and still counterwrap the wire over the hackle. Wrap the thread base, tie in the tail, tie in the wire and chenille at the BACK of the shank, then run the thread all the way forward. Wrap the chenille forward (/////) and tie off. Tie in a saddle hackle feather BY THE BASE at the head of the fly, and wrap it back to the back of the shank (\\), then, while holding the pointy end of the hackle tight, wrap the wire forward to the front (/////). You do not tie the fine end of the hackle down with thread, but with the wire itself.
You have now done a couple things. The hackle is counter-wrapped over the chenille, not that I have ever had the chenille break first. But the wire is counter-wrapped over the hackle as well. So instead of your hackle being held on at the front and back, which leads to a quick unravel on the first toothy critter, it is held on at EVERY place the wire and the hackle cross (XXXXX). For my #10s, that is about a dozen places. And trust me, that makes them a WHOLE lot more durable. If a tooth does cut the hackle, the wire still has the hackle held down in several more places, so the fly doesn’t unravel.
Most of the time, when my buggers die after a couple dozen browns or bluegills or what have you, it is because I broke the wire with the hemostats when fishing the hook out. I have had those buggers last for LOTS of fish at times.
It seems that we’ve gotten a bit off track on what ribbing is doing on the fly in the first place. It is not, primarily, there as reinforcement on most flies. (Buggers and Elk Hair Caddis are exceptions) It is there to suggest segmentation. And if that’s its primary purpose, it doesn’t matter so much which way you wrap it.
It is true that on some flies, like the Quill Gordon, gold wire is used by some as reinforcement. I’ve never really seen the point, as the stripped herl breaks anyway, but maybe you could get one last fish out of it, I don’t know.
As Hans Weilenmann used to point out, you can wrap in the same direction as the body, over the hook away from you, and STILL alter the angle you’re wrapping at 90 degrees and have counter-wrapped ribbing. The only thing that really matters is that the ribbing is slanted the opposite direction from the body wraps. Conversly, even if you wrap the ribbing over the hook toward yourself, if the plane is not opposite that of the floss or other body material, offset 90 degrees, you really haven’t counter-wrapped anything.
Eric
Thanks for the great input guys!