The red fly looks very close to an old trout fly I did a lot of fishing with back in the '70s. My mentor called it a badger and was tied with red thread and a creamy badger hackle palmered to the head. It was a real quick tie and we tied them down to 16s and all the way up to 4 3x shanks. I'm not much of a historian but I thought by old buddy Bob had made the pattern up himself since I had never seen in any books or fly shops. Thanks for the insight. The bigger flies were great for night fishin.