Generic or 'House Brand' items?

[Buddy Sanders]

Big Bad Wulff's post about he Bass Pro fly line got me thinking about this.

House Brands.

We're seeing this more and more with all the catalogs and web sites.

The practice seems to be increasing.

We have house brand fly lines.

We have house brand fly tying hooks.

We have house brand fly tying tools and materials.

We have house brand fly rods.

We have house brand rod blanks.

We have house brand fly reels.

And the list goes on.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just something worthy of discussing.

We all know that the nice folks at Hook and Hackle did not suddenly decide to buy the equipment and start making their own fly tying hooks. Cabela's doesn't have a factory that makes fly lines or even rods and reels. The folks at Bass Pro don't run a rod blank factory either.

All of these items are purchased from somewhere. The company, be it Hook and Hackle, Bass Pro Shops, Cabela's, or whomever, come to an agreement with a manufacturing concern to make the product and add their logos, names, or even, in many instances, build the product to certain specifications. For many products, they just purchase them as is in bulk amounts, either prepackaged for them or ready to package on site.

The big question for me is where do they get the stuff? But there are other questions too. Like, how many of he 'house brand' fly lines come from the same place and are the 'same' lines, just with different packaging? Are the house brand hooks that Hook and Hackle sells the same as the ones you can get from J. Stockard? Are the house brand fly rod blanks from Hook and Hackle, Mudhole, etc. from the same blank factory and made with the same materials? Are they exactly the same, or are there some subtle differences?

Many of the house brand fly reels look suspiciously alike, except for the name and maybe a difference in reel handle. Are they the same?

And, lastly, why does all this mater?

Well, as I see it, if the products are the same, that will give us a chance to shop comparing apples to apples. The prices can vary wildly from one house brand item to another. If they are the same product, and right now we really can't say for sure, you could find the best price and make your decisions accordingly.

I get that all the different retailers have a stake in keeping this information from the shopping public. Doesn't keep me from wondering about it, though.

Anyone else notice a couple of products that seem the same from brand to brand?

Buddy

[hugefish_80]

I was told that the white river fly shop lines (bass pro) are actually made by cortland (specifically the CV2 lines)
Cabela's spinning reels (at least some of them) are made by diawa, this also goes for scheels (if you look sometimes you can see the diawa nametag on them )
quantum makes some for bass pro's reels, but to my knowledge, they make a good deal of thier own rods( certainly could be wrong)

[Orthoman]

Good question.

I couple of years ago I bought an Orvis reel Battenkill mid-arbor I think. I thought it was unique although not very expensive - about $125.

On returning home and showing it to my friend who had just bought a Plueger Trion, we pulled the spool off each reel and low and behold everything inside was identical and the spools interchangeable. Only difference was the cut out pattern and perhaps the drag knob.

Now, I look at all of them closely and have found a lot of the "house brand" reels will look the same as my Orvis and the Trion. Probably one company that makes them all for everyone/anyone that wants one.

I suspect is the same for rods. I see that the Fly Shop is now selling their own brand of rods -- one in particular sounds an awful lot like the Echo -2 although can't tell for sure.


I would be nice to know who makes all this stuff so we can really compare before we buy.

[Cold]

I'd heard Orvis flylines were suspicoiusly similar to some SA lines as well. Not a terribly significant price difference, but food for thought.

[maodiver]

Older Okuma Airframe is Redingtond Crosswater is Cabelas something or other reel. MY AF and CW reels are interchangable.

[tailingloop]

I see the most commonality with reels. I have a Cabelas casting reel that is identical to a Pflueger except the color of the finish. For many years some low end Orvis and Cortland reels were identical except for color and logo. A local fly shop would offer customers the lower priced cortland spool if they wanted that option. The current Orvis Clearwater reel is the same as the reel St. Croix sold under the Imperial label a few years ago. The Orvis Mid Arbor and Pfleger Trion appear identical but there is a difference in the components used for the drag mechanism. The Cabelas Watershed appears to be a Ross Rythm with different porting on the frame. Th cabelas three forks reel is identical to the Redington Crosswater and probably made by Okuma, which does a lot of OEM work.The Fly Shop (in Redding CA) L2a reel looks suspiciously like a Pflueger President. That's just a few examples.

House flylines are made by the major companies but I doubt their premium lines are re labeled. in at least some cases major line companies make lines to the specification of the seller. Orvis wonderline is one example. I believe 3M (Sci. Anglers) was the maker and I believe 3M also makes Wulff and Teeny products. Rio makes Sage flylines.

Many house rods are made to the house's specifications but some may be generic copies. Before the rise of the higher quality asian factories companies like G. Loomis, St. Croix, Lamiglass, J.Kennedy Fisher made blanks or rods for cabelas, bass pro, LL Bean and others though these rods would not have been the same as the maker's own product line. I read an article somewhere that credited a large order from Cabelas to helping keep G Loomis afloat early in its history.

[tailingloop]

To follow up, with reels if you can identify identical product with different label you can factor warranty and service into a purchase decision.

[Zonk]

Does anybody happen to know who makes the reels for Sage?

If I remember correctly Lamson used to make their reels for them several years ago.

[waynep]

House flylines are made by the major companies but I doubt their premium lines are re labeled. in at least some cases major line companies make lines to the specification of the seller. Orvis wonderline is one example. I believe 3M (Sci. Anglers) was the maker and I believe 3M also makes Wulff and Teeny products. Rio makes Sage flylines.

I was in an Orvis dealer's shop, having them order me an Orvis fly line. They were back ordered. After a couple weeks I called to check the status and was told they were still back ordered. I was also told that it may be a while because Orvis was changing line manufacturers from SA to RIO. I was also told that though the lines are made outside Orvis, they are coated in house. Now I would bet on this being fact, but that's what I was told by an Orvis dealer.

[tailingloop]

I have read from multiple sources that Orvis adds the wonderline coatings themselves.

I have noticed that Rio, S.A., Cortland, and Airflo use distinctively different spools for their lines. I have seen house brand lines that come on spools identical to those of the major line companied and have wondered if this is a reliable indicator of origin.

On the origin of Sage reels, it is my understanding that they are made in Korea to their specifications. I have also seen it written that the drag mechanisms on some of their higher end reels were designed by Jack Charleton.